Double-tracking Rhythm Guitars

[Matt Smith]

Hi Guys--
I have a question about guitar doubling (on albums with four rhythm guitar tracks as opposed to just two). Is EVERYTHING doubled, or just the parts where the full band is kicked in and rocking?

I mean, take the intro to Arch Enemy's "Ravenous" for example. That high riff sounds like one left and one right guitar; I mean I know those guys are unbelievably tight, but are there 4 guitars playing even on parts like that? Or do the other two guitars enter when the rest of the band enters (around 13 seconds into the song)? I know Andy said there were two tracks of 5150 and two tracks of an Engl amp on that album.

Just curious. Obviously only Andy knows for sure, but anyone with experience quadruple-tracking is welcome to share, of course! I've only ever used one left and one right guitar, so I'm not sure how it's usually done.

Another thing I've wondered is whether all four guitars are equal in volume, or if two of them are down a bit.

Thanks,

 

[Hopkins-WitchfinderGeneral]

I tend to go for 1 either side now, THRASH.

 

[Brett - K A L I S I A]

I mean I know those guys are unbelievably tight, but are there 4 guitars playing even on parts like that?

I don't know about that particular song, but when you double (or more) guitar tracks, all tracks have to be very tight, or else you'll just end up bluring everything... So normally you shouldn't be able to tell how many guitars there are, it should be like one guitar playing with a "bigger than life" sound.

Brett

 

[vile_ator]

For 4 guitars I would track a left and a right with the 5150 and a left and right with another amp. The 5150 has great mids so maybe use a Marshall for the other 2 tracks. Use one or two cabs but use 2 mics per track and keep the cab and mics the same but just change amps for the second two tracks. I think thats what Andy does most of the time too, at least he said something like that up here once.

The harder the guitar parts are to play, the less chance you have of making it work. If you cant play it super tight, youll phase out the tracks. Better to use 2 in that case. With death metal I do 2 tracks and most guys do too. But not everyone. Morbid Angel does 4 tracks. But that stuff is pretty easy to play. With this new metal shit my grandma could lay 4 clean tracks. Arch Enemy probably has 4 tracks but the guys are tight players.

Mix the two tracks how you like. Most likely you'll end up with the second amp mixed in there like 30-50%. Everything is done to taste. There is no absolutes.

Colin

 

[Matt Smith]

Yeah, I was thinking about trying 2 tracks of Mark IV and 2 tracks of 5150, but there are a few riffs I don't think I'd be able to get tight enough. We'll see though.

 

[SymbolicSV]

hi , i'm a beginner but..., what about reamp the 3 and 4 guitars , i mean whit the signal from 1 and 2 , could it be a solution for thigt sound ? or it will cause more problems ?



(btw, sorry for my english )

 

[James Murphy]

hi , i'm a beginner but..., what about reamp the 3 and 4 guitars , i mean whit the signal from 1 and 2 , could it be a solution for thigt sound ? or it will cause more problems ?(btw, sorry for my english )

that would work as a way to stack and blend different amps but it would not create a "quad" tracked sound. the thick, heavy sound that most are looking for when they decide to use 4 tracks of rhythm guitar can only be created by having 4 seperate performances. this is due to the effect of the very slight differences that exist even when playing very, very tightly with your previously recorded tracks. you will not get this result with the methoud you mentioned. good luck.

 

[estigma2001]

hi james i read that you can also use a delay or there's a way to create that natural effect instead of playing the guitar 4 times, thanks in advance

 

[James Murphy]

Blah

 

[James Murphy]

hi james i read that you can also use a delay or there's a way to create that natural effect instead of playing the guitar 4 times, thanks in advance

you can use a delay or just copy a track and offset it by a few milliseconds to creat a psuedo-double.... then do the same for the second track and end up with psuedo-quad tracking. i had to do this before with a prog band who's guitarist couldn't double accurately and i had no time to learn the parts and do it myself, which is what i would have rather done.....

...BECAUSE, this method of faking it sounds like crap compared to just playing it twice or four times... TRUST ME... and given the time, why wouldn't you always choose the best sounding method?

 

[estigma2001]

thanks James i got you point and i promise not do it.
My guitar player has to learn though.
btw James what about the second Disincarnate cd?

 

[Nostalgiaplatz]

I was reading through this forum and I attempted quad-tracking a bit of the rhythm of a song I wrote. Heres what I got:
quad-tracked rhythm

It doesn't sound much tight to me, could someone help by giving advices and help me to improve it?

Thanks

 

[Kenny Lee]

Hmm.....I did a four guitar track attack here. On certain parts I did different runs so to have four different sounds (like at the ending). Hey Morningstar, just from what I heard. It sounds like maybe all four of your tracks amps are dialed in really close.

 

[Nostalgiaplatz]

It's amazing for someone who listens to al dimeola to record something as extreme as this

Anyway, you were right, I forgot that detail. I didn't use different amps or different settings, used the same amp and same setting in the v-amp for the 4 guitars. Have you got any sugestions as for how to re-do this with different settings?

 

[Kenny Lee]

I'd just go back and re-do all the guitars. Give each guitar a different amp. Or if you really just like one amp, give one maybe more mids/ one more lowend/ one more highs. You know what I mean? Or if you can try different cab and mics!!
Thanks, I listen to pretty much anything. But play Metal!

 

[marcust]

Hmm.....I did a four guitar track attack here. On certain parts I did different runs so to have four different sounds (like at the ending). Hey Morningstar, just from what I heard. It sounds like maybe all four of your tracks amps are dialed in really close.

damn kenny,
those are some great skills man
you should make some instrumental albums
damn

mark

 

[DIOBOLIC5150]

Whoa there, Kenny! Good job man. Sounds kinda like something Nile would do. SICK.

 

[Ermz]

What about using one amp sound for one speaker and using another for the other? Hence trying to emulate that whole 'live sound' dealie or how two guitarists may sound playing off each other.

I always thought that using 1 amp sound tracked twice, panned in both speakers and doing the same with the second would only muddy up a recording.

 

[Kenny Lee]

Hey thanks! Glad ya'll like that!!!