Drum Track Mixing...what?

[Pre Studio Productions]

I've noticed people on this forum always say to fully mix the drums before anything else. I have a few questions about this.

1) How would i know how loud the kit should be? as a whole kit and each individual drum?

2) Should i put an EQ on the drum bus, cutting frequencies for other instrumentnts (surgical eq)?

3) Once i "think" i have my mixed drum track, should i mix everything around that, or should i mix everything else, and then adjust the drum track to fit what i just mixed?

thanks guys.

 

[Shinozoku]

Amateur info here. Pros should feel free to some and d correct me.

Wider Qs sound more natural in general. Learn what frequencies need to be less prominent in drums before adding other instruments. Surgical EQ out to only be used for annoying frequencies accented by say, standing waves. Just make room in the kit for every other part of the kit in general.

Individually EQ each drum. EQ on the drum bus can lessen frequencies required by individual drums or cymbals.

Volumes ought to be, as far as I know, below the -12dB level. If I recall correctly most things ought to be close to -21dB for increased headroom. That way when everything else is recorded and the peaks have raised for the master mix, you have room for compression.

 

[Jarkko Mattheiszen]

I've noticed people on this forum always say to fully mix the drums before anything else. I have a few questions about this.

1) How would i know how loud the kit should be? as a whole kit and each individual drum?

2) Should i put an EQ on the drum bus, cutting frequencies for other instrumentnts (surgical eq)?

3) Once i "think" i have my mixed drum track, should i mix everything around that, or should i mix everything else, and then adjust the drum track to fit what i just mixed?

thanks guys.

1) As a whole kit, it doesn't matter as long as you keep your gain staging somewhat reasonable. You can always take the drum bus fader down at a later stage. Each individual drum? Mix it so the kit sounds good. You will have to tweak the levels along the way. Get a good fundamental sound out of the kit and adjust according to the rest of the mix later.

2) You can, but you don't have to. There's no wrong or right here. If it works and sounds good, you're golden. I know this is an irritating answer, but that's just how it is. It's all about listening.

3) Mix the song as a whole. Don't mix around anything, unless the song's musical content specifically asks for it. This is something that always sticks out to me. People here bash some rather well-known mixer's work that isn't really his best mix ever, but usually, a pro's mix is balanced and coherent even if the kick sounds horrible or the bass is farting. Often the people who do the bashing can easily get an awesome kick sound or a crushing guitar tone, but they can't make all the different elements work as a solid, balanced representation of the song. It's the most challenging part of mixing, and it's often overlooked. Dropping a Slate sample over the kick is easy, everyone can do it, but getting all the aspects and instruments working together is something that most of the newcomers completely fail at without even realizing it.

 

[Jarkko Mattheiszen]

Also, I guess I should mention that those are just my views on the subject. Someone else might disagree completely, and they might be absolutely right.

 

[AndrewB]

1) How would i know how loud the kit should be? as a whole kit and each individual drum?

Well, there are different ways to go about gain-staging.
One way is to make sure that each instrument (before any FX or plugins) peaks at around -18dbfs, and to balance the input and output volumes of all the FX. That should leave you room to mix comfortably.

Another way (the "Joey Sturgis method"), is to mix the drum bus regularly, so that the kick and snare are both peaking at 0dbs. Once you're done mixing, pull down the gain on the drum tracks by about 9dbs. This should prevent any clipping later on in the mix.

I normally use the first method, and I'm not an expert at the second method, so anybody can feel free to correct me.

2) Should i put an EQ on the drum bus, cutting frequencies for other instrumentnts (surgical eq)?

I usually don't put any EQ on the drum bus, but I use a little bit of compression and some tape saturation to glue everything together.

3) Once i "think" i have my mixed drum track, should i mix everything around that, or should i mix everything else, and then adjust the drum track to fit what i just mixed?

Usually I'll find some frequency clashes with the crashes and the vocals or guitars, or that the kick or snare isn't cutting through, or something like that. So most likely, you'll need to make some adjustments later on.

Also, notice that I've said what I've usually done, not what should be done, simply because there are many ways to go about it.

 

[Uros]

^^Dude, please don't share the wrong info (and I am saying this because there are other people around here that have understood it the same way that you have too).
While having your tracks peak at -18dBFS is not wrong per se, many people are mixing up RMS and peak levels. The basic idea to have your tracks have an average (RMS) level, not peak, of -18dBFSis because many converters are calibrated 0 VU = +4dBu = -18dBFS (average).
It should be noted that having your tracks average at around -18dBFS RMS doesn't mean they're gonna peak at -6 or -9 dBFS or whatever, it depends greatly on the nature on the instrument (take the electric guitar and the snare for example - the snare's gonna have its RMS level much lower than its peak level, while the guits levels gonna be much closer to each other; also meaning that the snare peak levels are gonna higher than the guitar peak levels when both are set to average at around -18dBFS RMS).

So, the correct advice would be - have your tracks average at around -18dBFS (it's also safe to say to peak between -6 and -12dBFS), and you're golden.

Although, the only absolute rule would be - just don't clip your inputs and outputs. But what's been stated above really comes in handy when you use some analogue emulation plugins and of course, if someday you find yourself working on some analogue equipment (on a desk you would chase your starter levels on trim pots, not on faders). It's just healthy thing to do, and not very hard, so why wouldn't we do it anyway?

 

[Styvo]

I don't think you "should" mix your drums first and then the rest of the track around that.
However if that is the direction you wish to take for a particular track or for a particular month of the year then go for it.
Clearly there is no ONE approach that best suits...ask and you'll get different answers.
I would suggest you let the music dictate the direction and method of approach....if a particular element of the track stands out above others and you wish to start with that then go for it.
Don't use EQ because you can....use it to clean tracks up and or bring particular frequencies out.
When you EQ you could try listening to other instruments within the mix and see if the EQ is making them sound brighter or darker by what your doing....hence it's not a good idea to EQ in solo unless your being specific.

I agree with Jarkko on point 3 in his post...that's how i would do it also.

 

[AndrewB]

^^Dude, please don't share the wrong info (and I am saying this because there are other people around here that have understood it the same way that you have too).
While having your tracks peak at -18dBFS is not wrong per se, many people are mixing up RMS and peak levels. The basic idea to have your tracks have an average (RMS) level, not peak, of -18dBFSis because many converters are calibrated 0 VU = +4dBu = -18dBFS (average).
It should be noted that having your tracks average at around -18dBFS RMS doesn't mean they're gonna peak at -6 or -9 dBFS or whatever, it depends greatly on the nature on the instrument (take the electric guitar and the snare for example - the snare's gonna have its RMS level much lower than its peak level, while the guits levels gonna be much closer to each other; also meaning that the snare peak levels are gonna higher than the guitar peak levels when both are set to average at around -18dBFS RMS).

So, the correct advice would be - have your tracks average at around -18dBFS (it's also safe to say to peak between -6 and -12dBFS), and you're golden.

Although, the only absolute rule would be - just don't clip your inputs and outputs. But what's been stated above really comes in handy when you use some analogue emulation plugins and of course, if someday you find yourself working on some analogue equipment (on a desk you would chase your starter levels on trim pots, not on faders). It's just healthy thing to do, and not very hard, so why wouldn't we do it anyway?

Oh, well thanks for enlightening me. I guess I had the wrong idea.

 

[NSGUITAR]

Phuck that. Don't put a box around you. Mix till you think it sounds good and pull the faders down. Do first, think last.

haha. on the real (even though my previous statement is very true to an extent). Just mix it man, making sure to not clip your plugins.. Unless that's what you're going for. Then you're definitely going to be clipping your busses, so just pull them down so your master peaks around -6db.. Or quieter if you want the headroom. But headroom really is NOT that crucial.. Sometimes if you want something to SLAM it's ok to clip your faders.