Drums: How to find the best spot to punch-in

[colonel_claypoo]

hey guys,

just wondering what tips you have for making punch-ins during drum recording as smooth as possible.
I have often observed the problem that a take that was punched in doesn't glue with the preceding take or cymbal decays are cut off. most of the time the dynamics/volume of the drums sound different. I know that it's probably the drummer's job to make sure he plays as evenly as possible. nonetheless, there have to be some hacks to find the best crossover point for punch-ins. I have always tried to have a drummer play until bar where cymbals fade or where there are no drums are playing, for example when a guitar break is coming up, and then continue where the drums start again.

here's an example (ArnaudM just posted it in the bar section). watch from 1.48

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qN-mXi7mQJY&feature=youtu.be

when the drummer is punched in, he starts off with a snare/tom roll. in my experience that would never work because the drummer would hit the snare and toms way harder than he would had he have to play on instead of getting punched-in. in addition to that the cymbal decay from the old take would be cut off completely since the would normally ring into the snare/tom roll.

any tips here?

 

[Charles J]

hey guys,

just wondering what tips you have for making punch-ins during drum recording as smooth as possible.
I have often observed the problem that a take that was punched in doesn't glue with the preceding take. most of the time the dynamics/volume of the drums may sound different. I know that's probably the drummer's job to make sure he plays as evenly as possible. nonetheless, there have to be some hacks to find the best crossover point for punch-ins. I have always tried to have a drummer play until bar where cymbals fade or where there are no drums are playing, for example when a guitar break is coming up.

here's an example (not mine). watch from 1.48

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qN-mXi7mQJY&feature=youtu.be

when the drummer is punched in, he starts off with a snare/tom roll. in my experience that would never work because the drummer would hit the snare and toms way harder than he would had he have to play on instead of getting punched-in.

any tips here?

EDIT: just watched that YT video, i would NEVER punch drums like that. in that instance, id have him play about half of that blast part then when i see the blank spot where we need to punch in, as i explain below, BAM. Fluid as an be.

i punch in drums while tracking all the time. When they fuck up, it's usually a change in the song or whatever.

I just rewind so the drummer knows where he's at, let the PREVIOUS TAKE play and tell the drummer to just start playing along when they know where their at (usually 20 or so seconds before the part that got sloppy), so essentially, drummer starts playing, HE THINKS he's hearing his drums live, alas, not.

a few seconds before the spot in question I quickly hit record + monitor ins at the same time and no one knows the difference. =D

If the intensity isnt the same, just have them do it again!

i do take donations via paypal. LOL

 

[bryan_kilco]

Yep, I always got scared when it came time to punching drums in, but after doing it a bunch, it's wayyyy easier than I thought.

You just need the drummer to play along a few bars early, like mentioned, due to cymbal decay and drums ringing out.

I love REAPER's little "Auto-punch time selection" option. Make a time selection, hit record a few bars prior to the time selection, let drummer play along, and it records during your section. BUT it also records everything else outside the time selection for as long as "record" is going on. Makes it SUPER easy to select all tracks and slide the punch-point around to a perfect spot so everything is just about seamless.

 

[JeffTD]

It's the exact same as with any other kind of punch-in - to sound natural and give yourself some wiggle room on the transition, record the musician playing into/out of the spot you need fixed. Guitars, bass, drums, vocals, keys, etc... all need the transition into/out of to sound natural.

 

[Fandus]

I often find myself breaking down the song into parts and tracking them seperatly. I make multiple tracks so I can allow the last hit of one part fully decay, while starting the next part on a new set of tracks. Then at the end I bus all the multiple tracks into just one set. Getting drummers to just focus on one part seems to help them nail it and as a result they need little to no edits.

 

[jeid]

I always have quick punch on, I play a good bit before I want him to come in and this gives me plenty of wiggle room (PT user)

 

[Daybreak]

When I did a live-recording of a blues band, we did it like mentioned above. Just press play a 10 seconds or something before and have them play along, get into the feel again, then hit record as soon as you feel they are "in it" again. Then just find a good spot to crossfade, which shouldnt be too hard, especially if you're playing after click! Having them play a 4-8 bars before is crucial to get the natural decay in the punch-in!

 

[waltz mastering]

just wondering what tips you have for making punch-ins during drum recording as smooth as possible.

Punching on analog multi used to be a bit more difficult, .. but playing along as mentioned and then punch on the downbeat of the first measure or section. ...punching on a snare hit is also an option and in digital it's easy enough to fine tune the edit and xfade if needed.

 

[Pipsymbol]

i usually glue drums just before kick or snare hit.
it is important that you have at least 2-3 bars overlap so you can find best sport to glue them together.
and always watch out for cymbal hits tom/floor sustains.
and if possible always punch in on less crowded sections.

 

[Potshot]

+1 to quickpunch on tools, always recording from where you hit play, have the drummer start playing along a few bars before the point you want to punch in, then you have the audio from wherever they started playing when you drag the region back, to find an appropriate crossfade point.

Using playlists in tools is the easiest method, new playlist for each take, comp as you go from the best takes onto the master playlist, should have all you need by the end of it and a reasonably tight performance that doesn't require too much editing.

I believe Cubase has a similar feature called "retrospective record" and obviously lanes, which are quite handy for comping takes on the go, and I assume Reaper and such would have something similar too.

 

[FrankTheSmith]

Do it in one take. BOOM!

 

[drew_drummer]

When I did the drums for our album (recording, not playing!) I had our drummer stop at the points where it made sense to; on the crash at the downbeat of a bar where the drums stop playing, or told him to let the last drum of the bar before ring out (floor tom for instance) ... I had two groups of tracks which I could record arm as two groups, so at the end of it all we had 32 tracks of drums - 16 for A, 16 for B - and the transitions blended together well, because we controlled his performance.

Now these were huge chunks; probably 2-3 minutes at a time generally speaking. We weren't doing 4 or 8 bar sections, and I wasn't pushing him to finish a song all in one take. I don't see the point in capturing tens or hundreds of tired takes where the drummer sounds like they're struggling. I'd rather capture two or three takes where we know they nailed the part, and all we need to do later is pick which take to use - fills are often a source of improvisation.

This also keeps the editing down to a minimum. The trick is to have a drummer who is comfortable playing to a click and who is consistent. This goes for any style imho.

When I record myself playing drums it's always with a electronic kit, I don't have the luxury of recording a real kit unfortunately. But I follow the same basic principle, although I am actually not a bad drummer, I don't have years and years of experience doing it. So I drum in 8-16-32 or 64bar passages, which keeps me from getting tired. I used to have to quantize a lot, but these days I barely have to quantize anymore, so I know I am getting better, but as anything... practice makes perfect!

 

[egan.]

I always have quick punch on, I play a good bit before I want him to come in and this gives me plenty of wiggle room (PT user)

^^^^^
That. Hopefully all DAWs have that function but I don't know. Quick punch is amazing and incredibly necessary for stuff without a click (not super applicable here I realize).

 

[jeid]

I find Quickpunch to be one of the most useful features of Pro Tools when tracking, especially for non-confident performers. It's also useful if you miss the spot to punch in.. no worries, hit record at any point and it'll still have all that stuff recorded. Lovely!