Dual tracking help

[stasismetal]

I've heard rythm guitar sounds a lot more louder when they aren't perfectly tight and sounds like 2 seperate guitar. What is the deal, how millisecond do you left between each transcient? I've heard some say 20 ms. I need to track a really tight death metal band and I'm about to edit a lot so is there any common law that you people use to make the guitar sounds extremely tight but also feels that it's 2 different performance?


thank you guys
marco

 

[FadeToMuffins864]

Don't over-complicate it. Get a good guitar tone. Get the guitarist to lay down two tracks that are as close to each other as possible. Don't think about how many milliseconds should be between each transient. just listen to it. You'll be able to tell if the takes are good or not. Rhythm guitars sound BETTER when they are played well, not when they are mathematically edited to a grid that strips all the performance out of them.

 

[stasismetal]

the thing is it's possible to do take and be perfectly on time, and guitar sounds weak when they are perfectly on time. So i should ask the guy to replay it a little less on the time?

its weird deh

 

[FadeToMuffins864]

That sounds more like bad guitar tone then. If your guitar tone is good, playing them closer together should ALWAYS make them sound bigger. They aren't the same take/track, so getting weaker as they get closer together should physically not be happening. What you are describing is phase cancellation, which is impossible with seperate takes.

 

[stasismetal]

ahh is it possible I used the same impulse for both side. Which combination of impulse would you recommend me for tracking guitar properly before reamping?

 

[Plankis]

Track 1: Original take 1 -> Amp -> Cab ->

Track 2: Original take 2 -> Amp -> Cab ->

Do not bother with Haas effects in the studio where you can so easily doubletrack.

 

[stasismetal]

What do you guys think? Such band like avenged sevenfold the rythm guitars sound non human tight and this is this kind of tightness I need

 

[FadeToMuffins864]

First of all, bands like avenged sevenfold most likely quad-track. Their tightness comes first and foremost from good playing. They might be edited, but about 90% of it is sheer performance skill. You have to get good performances, no amount of editing will put you close.

 

[006]

Using the same impulse should not matter, the take itself is still different so it's not going to phase.

 

[stasismetal]

i want some more opinion guys ! Please !

 

[Damage, Inc.]

a. it is impossible to play perfectly in time.

b. the small imperfections that differ between two takes are what make the sound of doubling bigger. Can't be reproduced with a computer.

c. my advice would be to get the guitarist to play two tracks as tight as possible, and punch in the bits that don't quite match up. It can be a long process, but it's worth it to get a good double. Don't edit the tracks in Pro Tools too much after the fact, because you'll strip the track of any feel as you to this.

 

[Moonlight_Seeker]

Even if the guitarist is absolutely non-humanly 11111111111110000000000% perfectly tight exactly the same timing for both takes I really strongly doubt every single hits will be made exactly with the same force/velocity with the same pick angle at the same exact place on the string and all that. So if you go into supra edit mode, edit as tight as possible.

 

[DanLights]

Asking him to play "a bit weaker" would be a huge mistake, if you haven't realized yet. If the guitarist(s) is good, leave it as is or perhaps edit certain parts that you HEAR are not tight enough (don't zoom in on the grid, it'll always look out of sync visually cause it's human playing no matter how good, but it won't sound wrong). If the band really wants inhuman tightness then go ahead and edit it completely, there's nothing wrong with that IMO, just a tool to reach a specific sound that may or may not be desired

 

[FadeToMuffins864]

In all honesty, and i say this with the utmost kindness and respect, asking a guitarist to play things "slightly off-time to make the sound bigger" is about the stupidest fucking idea I've ever heard.

 

[frazzlepuff]

In all honesty, and i say this with the utmost kindness and respect, asking a guitarist to play things "slightly off-time to make the sound bigger" is about the stupidest fucking idea I've ever head.

hahahaha brilliant!

 

[zirkonflex]

Just play the shit as tight as possible 4 times, its not that hard to understand.

 

[stasismetal]

thks guys,

this confirm my doubts about perfect timing killing guitar ''bigness''
So if i get it, editing kill the feel, but doesn't affect how big the guitar sounds,

Quad tracking actually does make it big.

 

[olif8]

Quad tracking actually does make it big.

Dual tracking is just as effective, to quote Andy: "I'm kind of going off using 4 guitars to be honest. Just turn 2 up."

 

[zirkonflex]

Its all a matter of preference and musical style.
2 guitars will always sound tight, 4 guitars will be bigger and less defined and 6 guitars are Behemoth.

 

[kernelxsanders]

the thing is it's possible to do take and be perfectly on time, and guitar sounds weak when they are perfectly on time. So i should ask the guy to replay it a little less on the time?

its weird deh

lolwut? it is IMPOSSIBLE to play a second take of the same riffs PERFECTLY on time and aligned with the first take. in which case, it would sound just like you duplicated that track, thus only raising the volume. it is the little flaws that make it sound bigger and tighter, ie, it gives a wider stereo image.