Quad Tracking & Layering....urghhhhhh

R

ruckus328

Member
Nov 2, 2009
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Philly USA
OK, first off, I just spent the last 3 hours with the search. I gave up by page 18 since I've gotten nothing done at work all day now and am going to get my ass reamed out by my boss tomorrow....lol

Now for my question/issue.

I've just started my first quad tracking project. The tone is huuuge, sounds so much thicker than dual tracking, however there are some areas where there is a lead line which has me a little perplexed as to how they should be layered. There is also 3 guitar parts during the chorus (I'll get to that then).

I have the guitars panned like this:

GTR A - 100L
GTR A-2 - 80R (-3db)
GTR B - 100R
GTR B-2 - 80L (-3db)

During the verse/bridge, all is well, both guitars playing the same thing. Then the chorus hits, there's a rhythm, lead, and harmonizing lead as well. Yes, we can do this live lol - keyboardist (myself) plays a lil guitar as well..haha

What the hell do I do here? o_O:erk::yuk:

Do I quad track the rhythms as above and do the leads like this:

Lead - 100L
Lead Harmony - 100R

I tried this and it sounds like balls. Could barely hear the lead and lacked all of it's clarity. Could this be a gain issue?

The next area I'm stumped on is the......dum dum dum.....dare I say it:

BREAKDOWN!! :headbang:

Quad trackin those chuga chugas really sounds beyond sick.

Everything would be fine except for that damn lead riff that comes in over top as well. Double track the lead and pan it hard L & R? Well shit, same scenario as the chorus.......

You guessed it....

Balls.....

Any help would be beyond appreciated. Maybe I should be panning differently? Turning down the gain? But if I turn down the gain it sounds like there isn't enough when there is no lead riff.


Subnote:

I wish there was a "banging your head against the wall" icon.
 
People are probably going to ask for sound clips in order to hear what your talking about. But 2 things to keep in mind. If the lead is not jiving well with the rythms it could be that the lead is just not right for that part of the song, and recording it is now showing that to you? could it be that it's too much of the same notes? For example low rythm accompanied by a lead that is also in the lower registers will always sound like mud. However, what you can try to do is slap a nice hard compressor on that lead guitar, I like to use RAXX by waves to make that lead guitar pop out. Second, try EQing the lead brighter than the rythm, usually with more upper mids.
 
Automation. Try boosting a little 300hz on the rhythms in the chorus and maybe a 6k boost or a hi-shelf boost on the leads. Hi-pass leads way higher than rhythms too.

edit: Just read that post ^ I compress leads very hard in the chorus too. Very true that the lead might not be right for that part, too.
 
AEL89 said:
Automation. Try boosting a little 300hz on the rhythms in the chorus and maybe a 6k boost or a hi-shelf boost on the leads. Hi-pass leads way higher than rhythms too.

edit: Just read that post ^ I compress leads very hard in the chorus too. Very true that the lead might not be right for that part, too.
Click to expand...

all of this.
 
Aggressive EQ on the lead might work. While listening to the lead with the rhythm guitars, try cutting away with a high-pass filter everything that conflicts with the rhythm.
You might need to go really high, stop at the point that it really starts to "eat" from the sound and the back off a little. Then you could probably push it a little higher in volume.
Might also try to boost a the highs a bit also.

Some judicious reverbs, delays and/or harmonizers/wideners could work here also. And +1 compressing the leads.

Meh.. not that much new info from me.. most of it's been covered already.
 
No, it's definitely not that it's not right for the rhythm. We've had a little clip recording of this particular part for 8-9 months now and we always do rough recordings so we can hear everything layered to make sure it will sound right for just that issue.

It's just that now that the rhythm's being quad tracked the "fullness" seems like it might be a problem in this instance and I'm just having issues trying to get the lead to bite through. I could post that old test clip but it was done using the power amp out on a valveking with no cab emulation.....lol we didn't know what impulses were back then....looking back it's pretty laughable now. I'd prefer not to though as I'd rather the first clip of this song not be some half-assed representation. We've been working on ths particular one for a long time and are very proud of it....I'm sure you all can appreciate that, ya know?

I'll try hitting it with a compressor and eq'ing it differently than the rhythm's. Thanks for the advice guys. Does my panning arrangement sound right though? Hard pan L & R the 2 leads? Still quad track the rhythm's?
 
ruckus328 said:
I'll try hitting it with a compressor and eq'ing it differently than the rhythm's. Thanks for the advice guys. Does my panning arrangement sound right though? Hard pan L & R the 2 leads? Still quad track the rhythm's?
Click to expand...

I would personally bring them in a bit, like 70-75% each side or maybe smack them in between the rhythms at 90 and then lower the volume a tad... after compressing and eqing, of course... hopefully this doesn't mess with the drum panning or anything else for that matter (I try to give everything its own panning space along with its own frequency space).
 
You could also bounce the rhythm down to double tracks instead of quad and then bring them up a little so it doesn't sound quieter, just less messy. I'm having a 6 guitar track panning problem myself and that was the solution. Less tracks, lol.
 
I'd single track the lead and stick it in the centre. Sounds to me like you've enough going on out wide, use some if that centre space. I'm not a huge fan of doubled leads. Aggressively high passing will get you less mud and go for a different tone than the rhythm so that it cuts through. Compress the lead- or use some kind of saturation to kill some of the dynamics and sweeten the tone. I've been using Rubytube lately for this on some guitars and really liking the results instead of a compressor.

I've done 6 layers of rhythm with a lead coming over it and had no real issues.
 
if6was9 said:
I'd single track the lead and stick it in the centre. Sounds to me like you've enough going on out wide, use some if that centre space. I'm not a huge fan of doubled leads. Aggressively high passing will get you less mud and go for a different tone than the rhythm so that it cuts through. Compress the lead- or use some kind of saturation to kill some of the dynamics and sweeten the tone. I've been using Rubytube lately for this on some guitars and really liking the results instead of a compressor.

I've done 6 layers of rhythm with a lead coming over it and had no real issues.
Click to expand...
But it's a harmonized lead, why would he leave the harmonized lead out?
 
lead + harmony dead center always man :D

Why would you pan it unless its part of the Rhythm and you want 1 guitar playing the main lead as part of the rhythm and one playing the harmony. Else just keep it in the center.

And just give the lead track some more mid/highs in the eq so it cuts through the quad track. I've never had a problem getting a lead guitar to cut through. Even if there is a 4 part guitar harmony going on :D
 
Don't know if this would make a difference, but maybe it's something to try.

Track all the rhythms first with one mic, quad tracked. Then on the leads try dual micing your amp (something like the clayman method - it's one of the stickied threads) to get a little extra for each lead guitar without having to quad-track those as well.

I like to pan my lead guitars at 50% L and 50% R normally...all personal preference. Maybe if you want a little more spread and you do the dual micing, try this:

Guitar 1 - 75% L
Guitar 1B - 50%L
Guitar 2 - 75% R
Guitar 2B - 50% R

Then of course EQ, delay, and/or reverb to taste



Hope this helps, or is at least worth trying
 
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