E-Drums - recommendations?

[Fragle]

Hey folks,

i'd really like to start playing drums. i've been playing guitar for nearly a decade now, and i'm a big fan of death metal, and it's very often the drumming that impresses me beyond belief. i'm constantly bugging the shit out of my drummer friends, asking about how to play this or that, stick technique etc

the thing is, i don't have a room that i could fit in a full blown acoustic set, so i was thinking e-drums, also for volume reasons (nobody wants to hear sucky wannabe blasts at 100db hehe).
another point would be that i could finally record some drummers (at least for the demo stuff) with an e-drum - i have SSD 3.0, which has a lot of e-drum based features i never cared about hehe. i guess in theory an e-drum with real cymbals miced up should work fine as long as the drummer is comfortable with the way the e-kit reacts.

anyways, what i'd like to know:

a) is an e-drum a good way to learn drums, or should i stick with some practice kick/snare pads for home use and convince my band's drummer to hack away on his set as often as possible?
b) if it's a good idea, what set could you recommend? i don't have heaps of cash available, so i thought about ebay and the likes...
c) i've noticed that e-drums come with a drum module. i wonder if that's necessary? seeing how i have SSD, i wonder if it's possible to just run the triggers into my interface and use ssd for all the sounds? or does it only work with midi signals output by the module?

any sort of pointers and advice will be greatly appreciated!

 

[drew_drummer]

E-Drums require a slightly different technique. You shouldn't play an ekit as hard as you would a real kit, because the ekit doesn't have the dynamic range to truly response to that kind of playing.

But if you're starting out, it's probably not too relevant to you. Just get a kit that is constructed fairly well and has some expansion options. I recommend the Yamaha kits at the moment. They're beating the Roland ones for me. Steer clear of RET drums... they don't respond at all to dynamics, and produce the guffest midi data I've ever seen.

When you get one do the following:

Go into the velocity/gain controls. Hit the pads really hard. Make sure your output velocity is peaking at about 122 - not 127. This gives you a little bit of headroom, and any software anti-machine gun modes will perform better on harder hists.

 

[006]

I don't know what kits are good these days for the price but I would recommend getting one with, or getting separate, a module. It will be an easier solution to just fuck around on the kit and learn, you can always go MIDI out of it and into SSD, etc.

 

[Fragle]

thanks!

i've done a bit of internet research and a few names that pop up frequently are these:
roland td-3
roland hd-1
yamaha DTXplorer

the hd1 is supposed to have really fucked up kicks which are nothing like the real deal whatsoever. i wonder if i could buy a seperate kick pad + doublekicks and use that? anyone know if the module is capable of that. because otherwise it's pretty damn cheap. mesh head for snare, too.
yamaha xplorer seems to have one big downfall: only mono cymbals and snare. meaning no rim shots, and more importantly no cymbal chokes
roland td-3 is the most recommended e-drum it seems (at least for starters), but that's like 700 euro used, quite a price tag for a total newb who just wants to have some fun and learn the techniques.

 

[narcossintese]

thanks!

i've done a bit of internet research and a few names that pop up frequently are these:
roland td-3
roland hd-1
yamaha DTXplorer

the hd1 is supposed to have really fucked up kicks which are nothing like the real deal whatsoever. i wonder if i could buy a seperate kick pad + doublekicks and use that? anyone know if the module is capable of that. because otherwise it's pretty damn cheap. mesh head for snare, too.
yamaha xplorer seems to have one big downfall: only mono cymbals and snare. meaning no rim shots, and more importantly no cymbal chokes
roland td-3 is the most recommended e-drum it seems (at least for starters), but that's like 700 euro used, quite a price tag for a total newb who just wants to have some fun and learn the techniques.

I have a HD-1 and had a TD-3 in the past.
Regarding the HD1, I believe it´s aimed for non-drummers (like me), because the kit is very small and the kick takes some time to get used to (but it is 100% playable once you forget you´re not playin on an Iron Cobra). You can´t plug separate pads/triggers on it. I mean, it´s good for your own stuff, but not for other drummers.

The TD-3 is very good, specially if you plan on using only the MIDI data/external sampler. By the way, from my experience, stereo pads aren´t really a bonus. When I had the TD-3 I´ve set all the stereo pads to the same outputs (making them mono) because it´s very easy to trigger the wrong area. It´s easier to add chokes, bells and side snares manually after the MIDI is tracked.

The reason I´ve switched from TD-3 to HD-1 is that HD1 takes MUCH less space, it´s much easier to carry around and is the only e-kit that is really silent. The normal kicks like the TD-3 are loud enough to don´t let people sleep on the other rooms, specially if you´re on an apartment. Even with the KD7 thing (the pad where you invert the pedal beater).

Also, check the new e-kits model, because I believe some of them can track the MIDI via USB instead of using MIDI cables and interface. That would be a plus for me.

 

[drew_drummer]

I have a TD-6, with two KD-7's... they're fucking loud. You need understandable neighbours below you if you live in a flat.

 

[MKS]

I love my Yamaha kit (DTXPRESS IV). I actually prefer rubber pads because the mesh pads have a very artificial bounce.

 

[Trevoire520]

I keep thinking about an electric kit and am liking the look of the Alesis DM5 Pro. Not used it myself though.

 

[Star Ark]

I've had a roland td3 for about 3 and a half years now and it has been awesome. One pad is finally giving way but after the amount of time and the number of drunken idiots bashing the crap out of it I'm very happy. Plus one new cy8 pad is cheap, as cheap as the cheapest cymbals around.

As far as playing on an e kit or a real kit, they are fairly different. Metal drumming is one style that an e kit is really good for I think. But subtle snare busses and ghost notes or intricate tool esque high hats and ride cymbals are not nearly as easy to achieve with a set of e drums though

I always found the construction of the entry level Yamahas to be weak in comparison to roland, I sold them for 3 years along side the Rolands and the Rolands almost never came back with problems and we sold maybe 4 Rolands for every 1 Yamaha

 

[AllanD]

http://www.electronicdrums.com/pads/pads2.htm

. I'm thinking of building a set just for some added realism in my programmed drums.

 

[Fragle]

thanks for the input!

as for the loudness thing, i live in a single family home so that's not really an issue. neighbors would probably complain if i had an acoustic kit, and sometimes they get pissed when i'm really cranking the amps to get a nice guitar tone but an e-kit will positively be a non-issue.

anyways, as for the kits:
i noticed SSD already has presets for the roland td-3, so that would be rather easy. interesting thing about those stereo pads btw....i thought it would be rather important to be able to play cymbal chokes or switch between ride and bell, but you're saying it doesn't work the way it should?

and regarding the hd-1, well if i can't hook up a double kick it's useless to me. metal drumming is all about the double kicks (playing captain obvious right now) and i really want/need to practice that.


edit: one more question - what do you think about the cheap indie brands? like this
http://www.thomann.de/de/millenium_mps400_edrum_stereo_set.htm
i've read a lot of negative stuff about them, especially on drummer forums hehe, but i've also read some positive reviews from people who were in a similar situation. anyone here familiar with those entry level edrums? i've read the stock sounds are quite shitty, but there's a guy on the reaper forum who runs it with ssd 3.0 and it works (and sounds) just fine.

on drum forums people constantly go about how they suck so bad and you need at least an e-kit around €1k like the roland td3 or td4 (better yet) or roland td fuck me in general or you'll quit drumming because the instrument is so shit etc.
i really really wonder how much truth there is in that.....because it kinda sounds like "boy, you NEED a REAL fender american strat as your first guitar, anything cheaper sucks donkey balls and you'll never learn the instrument the right way"....know what i'm saying?

 

[laszlozsolt82]

I got the MPS 300, with the Alesis trigger IO!(realy cheap bundle on T), For me it`s ok,and working fine, I use them for tracking drums, The trigger IO got no sounds just converts the signal into midi wia USB, and i am monitoring with Superior drummer. It converts easy to mesh heads and then it`s not so loud, no problem with the duble kick, only problem was with the ghost notes but it happens even with wery expensive ones, i solved this putting the cymbal pads on separate drum cymbal stands, and the snare to.
I don`t need a more expensive kit, and the sound is coming from the VST so basicaly it`s like a MIDI keyboard and those are cheap to.

 

[Jahbulon]

I have a yamaha dtxplorer that i hook up to my 2626 via midi and it is awesome. I never mess with the samples on the dtxplorers module, i just trigger SSD, so i can't comment on that. I also have a trigger io that im actually looking to part with from a diy e-drum kit i made.

 

[narcossintese]

anyways, as for the kits:
i noticed SSD already has presets for the roland td-3, so that would be rather easy. interesting thing about those stereo pads btw....i thought it would be rather important to be able to play cymbal chokes or switch between ride and bell, but you're saying it doesn't work the way it should?

and regarding the hd-1, well if i can't hook up a double kick it's useless to me. metal drumming is all about the double kicks (playing captain obvious right now) and i really want/need to practice that.

You can use the left pedal (hihat control) on the HD1 as a second kick. There´s just one preset on the module that allows you to do that, but that´s the metal one. And using it connected to the computer you can always set each note, including the left pedal, to whatever you like using MIDI Maps. So yeah, you can totally play double kick on HD1. But I still strongly advise you to test the product before buying because the pedal feel can be a deal breaker.

HD-1 uses the same midi map as TD-3 on Steven Slate Drums, they´re both GM (36 kick - 38 snare - 48, 45, 43 toms - 49 crash - 51 ride - 42, 44, 46 hats). TD3 allows you to change the midi note of each pad, but you can make it on the PC using MIDI maps anyway. Don´t worry about that.

About the el cheapo kit, I played once on one very similar. The plastic feel of the pads was a turn off for me, specially because I´m used to the super bouncy Roland meshead snare. Other than that they work ok, so if you can manage to switch the snare pad for a meshead one it may be sweet.

About the stereo pads, they aren´t that natural. The choke is ok, you just have to squeeze the border of the cymbal pad, but the region based ones, like the ride/bell cymbal or the snare rimshot, aren´t that precise and you will keep mistriggering them a lot. Also, you should notice that the MIDI message that the choke sends isn´t a MIDI note, so it can be very tricky to make it work on a PC sampler. I remember having a hard time managing to simulate it using Battery and I´m pretty sure that you won´t be able to use it with SSD (Kontakt). Bad thing is that there´s no way to turn the choke message into a note, that would solve everything.

 

[Fragle]

thanks, very helpful stuff!

guess i'll head over to a store and play a few kits (hopefully my band's drummer will come with me hehe), but so far the hd-1 looks like the one for me.
yes, it's not expandable, but i'm just starting out anyways. i intend to buy used @ ebay, so there wouldn't me much money lost when swapping the hd1 for something else somewhere down the road.
i'm really curious about the feel of the kick pedal. i don't want to run into any problems switching from the hd1 to a real kit. it's also a shame that you can't have both double kicks and hihat pedal though.
btw, as for double kicks in general, most e-drums come with only a single kick it seems, so i'd have to get a seperate double kick pedal anyways, and fuck that shit is expensive.

once again, thanks a lot! very helpful replies.

 

[decoys]

i bought myself an used roland td-3 recently. im more than happy with it and glad that i didnt bought anything less, like a cheaper alesis dm6 or sth like that.
i am no drummer myself, but when i play, i like the feeling of the roland drums much more than of all others, more durable ... like i would want (and imagine) a drum to be played.
plus, connect your roland to your interface and trigger steven slate drums with zero problems, thats even cooler than the shitty stock sounds haha.
when i started playing on drums, i had a beginner sonor acoustic set, and tbh i hated the feel to play on it, i like the roland edrum feeling much more ... dont know if it helped you, but those are just my thoughts on that go check some kits out!

 

[updog]

Out of my own experience I can't recommend HD-1 or entry-level Yamaha kits. I believe that even if Yamaha gets most things right, their electric drumkits are always inferior to Roland kits in the same price range. Out of those three I highly recommend the Roland TD-3, especially if you don't want to buy used. I've owned a TD-6 kit for many years now, and to my understanding it's the same kit as TD-3KV but with the TD-6 module, and I'm completely satisfied by it. The feel is obviously different compared to real drums, but getting used to the difference in feel between acoustic and electric kits comes with time.

I wouldn't go with the HD-1, it's worse than any other Roland or Yamaha kit I've ever tested, both in concept and execution.

 

[drew_drummer]

One thing I'd almost insist on is - don't get a moving hi-hat!! They fucking suck balls. I'm still shocked the TD-20 comes with one.. and it's awful. Get a fixed pad and an expression pedal.

 

[updog]

One thing I'd almost insist on is - don't get a moving hi-hat!! They fucking suck balls. I'm still shocked the TD-20 comes with one.. and it's awful. Get a fixed pad and an expression pedal.

Agreed, those are dreadful. Hopefully companies will come up with new technology to replace the current hihats soon.

 

[Machinated]

http://jobekydrums.co.uk/