Ebay Ethics

[AeonicSlumber]

So as some of you guys know Agalloch releases a lot of limited edition items that fetch HUGE prices on Ebay. 500 specially-pressed vinyls or whatever sell out and then go up on Ebay for hundreds of dollars. What are your thoughts on this? I feel it's hugely unethical for a fan to take advantage of bands like this by buying these releases just to put them up on Ebay for that much money.

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(source: MetalSucks.net)


Seriously. I can't believe "fans" do this.

 

[TENTH DREAMER DECEIVER]

Supply and Demand.

 

[AngraRULES]

Those people can suck it. I hate when this happens.

That being said, if anyone wants to buy my original Rhapsody demo-tape, I'm asking $300.

 

[AeonicSlumber]

Supply and Demand.

That's nice. Next time read the thread before trolling. This is not a discussion on economics. It's a discussion of ethics as a fan. If you buy something rare and cherish it for 15 years and THEN sell it, it's one thing, but I've seen people buy Agalloch items just to immediately make a profit off them on Ebay. It's fucked up. It's even worse than bootlegging if you ask me because it's taking advantage of all the hard work and money the band and the label spends on getting a special limited product out to the fans just for the true fans that would actually appreciate these items to not get a chance to buy them for their normal price. No instead, they have to miss out because a bunch of douches think it's cool to buy a vinyl for $25 that he or she will never appreciate just to sell it for $75-100. I'm sick of Agalloch (this is just an example, there are a few others in which this issue applies to as well) limited t-shirts selling out and then seeing like 50 of them go up on auction sites for multiple times the cost due to their value within weeks.

Yes, of COURSE it's supply and demand, but that's not the point. Troll harder.

 

[Diabolik]

I agree. I think it is cool when bands put out limited stuff but I hate it when they make it so no one asides someone who was at a certain show or there is such a limited supply that it is virtually impossible to get. Nothing worse than new vinyl being jacked up in price by that much. I can see if it is an older record from decades ago....not something made last year. This same things happens in the comic book world too. Super limited prints of books that go for crazy prices. I guess if that is what you are into that is cool but I just want the music. I am not big on reselling something I already bought. I bought it for a reason...I am not looking to get rid of it.

I would like to see bands who do the limited run of stuff also either make it available on digital download or release a CD also so it is also available for actual fans of the band and not the guys who buy it just to resell it.

 

[johan68]

Once you buy something you can do whatever the hell you want with it. Sell it for a million bucks or trow it in the trash.

 

[AeonicSlumber]

Once you buy something you can do whatever the hell you want with it. Sell it for a million bucks or trow it in the trash.

Another one to miss the point entirely.

And by the way, legally speaking this is NOT always the case.

 

[AeonicSlumber]

Not agreeing with you = missing the point

Where did I not agree with anyone? I full well understand that economically speaking, if Ebay is cool with it you can sell it for how much you want. But this is not a thread about economics, it's about ethics. If you feel that ethics aren't an issue, I'd like to hear about why that's the case, but neither poster really did explain that. One just trolled the thread because he's gay for me and the other utilized an argument that isn't even 100% the case and is almost a separate issue from what's being discussed here. (Game companies for example, would love to have a word with Johan about how wrong he is, but this is not a thread about copyrights and licenses).

If you feel that it's okay for a "fan" to buy a limited edition t-shirt, vinyl, etc, for $40 and then turn around tomorrow and sell it on Ebay for $150 just to make a profit, I want an answer as to why besides "LOL SUPPLY AND DEMAND. THEY CAN DO WHATEVER THEY WANT AND IF SOMEONE WILL BUY IT THEN ITS NOBODY ELSES FAULT."

 

[Diabolik]

Not agreeing with you = missing the point

No, Aeonic was trying to get a debate and opinions and not just some goofy answers.

Like I said earlier....if bands want to do the limited EP's or small runs of stuff. They should also make the music itself easily available on another format for fans who dont want to pay and arm and a leg for a copy just to hear the songs. basically you are limiting you exposure and you music. This also give bootleggers and downloaders the fuel for thier fire.

for example....Band A puts out some limited EP's with new songs. They make 500. They sell instantly and on ebay they go for 100 bucks. People who want to hear the music but dont want to pay the money for the EP that they cant get now will be more apt to going to an illegal download site and get the music from that.

if Band A released the limited EP at 500 copies but also on thier site released downloads of the songs. The EP's could still retain thier value but the music can still be enjoyed by all. Or if the band released a bunch of Ep's announce a soon compilation of the EP's so people who want the music but not will to drop 100 bucks on a rare EP can wait for the CD comp in a year.

When it comes to limited t-shirts.....a whole different story. I am not a big t-shirt person but really almost most bands shirts are limited if you are not a big band. I cant see how people pay 100 bucks for a rare t-shirt.

I am curious to see what others say.

I do think it is cool when bands put out limited stuff. It keeps people interested and constantly have to keep an eye out with what is going on. But when it gets crazy you have to wonder if the band cares about the fans or the fact the just want to see thier stuff go at a high price to seem KVLT.

 

[TENTH DREAMER DECEIVER]

You noticed that too

Life isn't fair so why whine about what people are willing to pay?

Not agreeing with you = missing the point

 

[johan68]

If you are not copying the thing but selling the exact same thing as you bought, I really don't see where ethics are involved. As I said before, once you buy something you are free to do whatever you want with it.

Seems to me you are just pissed you weren't on the ball enough to buy one of those 500 limited copies.

 

[AeonicSlumber]

If you are not copying the thing but selling the exact same thing as you bought, I really don't see where ethics are involved. As I said before, once you buy something you are free to do whatever you want with it.

Seems to me you are just pissed you weren't on the ball enough to buy one of those 500 limited copies.

No I actually don't care that I've missed out on a few vinyls and shirts. I was inspired to write this post because a MetalSucks article brings up the exact same points I make here. It's something I've felt about for a long time now. I just feel bad for the band and label. They don't make a ton of money on doing this limited edition stuff even if they sell it out either. They really do this kind of stuff for the fans, and it just blows that people are lame enough to take advantage of something cool just to make money themselves. It's a slap in the face to the band and its fans. Is it legal? Yeah, so I'm not debating that. Of course it's fair supply and demand economics. But there's more to it than that.

 

[AeonicSlumber]

I do think it is cool when bands put out limited stuff. It keeps people interested and constantly have to keep an eye out with what is going on. But when it gets crazy you have to wonder if the band cares about the fans or the fact the just want to see thier stuff go at a high price to seem KVLT.

Sometimes I wonder if that's the case too, which would be equally lame if true.

 

[jem777az]

How do you really know that it's "true" fans of the band who are buying and then selling them for profit? It's quite possible that someone who knows about the band but is not a fan is aware of the prices they are fetching. I'd like to think a hardcore fan wouldn't do that. At least most probably wouldn't.

 

[AeonicSlumber]

How do you really know that it's "true" fans of the band who are buying and then selling them for profit? It's quite possible that someone who knows about the band but is not a fan is aware of the prices they are fetching. I'd like to think a hardcore fan wouldn't do that. At least most probably wouldn't.

That doesn't make sense though man. If they didn't know why would they mark it up on Ebay for a 400% margin? One would think if they didn't know, they wouldn't be marking it up so high at all... Also the seller's innocence gets even more suspicious when the reality is that MANY people are doing it, not just one or two as per the pic in my OP eludes to.

trolololool

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[Prog_Please]

You can't have a thread with ebay in the title and then piss and moan every time someone brings up supply and demand. Its a fundamental principle of modern society.

Also, this has been happening for a while and Agalloch still puts out limited edition stuff (usually only available while on tour). The band isn't stupid; they know this is going to happen. Thus, if they had a problem with it, I'm sure they'd stop doing it or change the way they do it (as several people have mentioned already).

Finally, for those that live in California, it is / was cheaper to see the show locally and then ebay the DLP as opposed to traveling to the other side of the country to attend a show where they are selling those DLPs.

 

[AngraRULES]

How do you really know that it's "true" fans of the band who are buying and then selling them for profit?

Because in the Agalloch case, most of the stuff is only available during their tours - and I don't see a non-fan buying a ticket to go to the concert just to buy the rare merch...

 

[jem777az]

That doesn't make sense though man. If they didn't know why would they mark it up on Ebay for a 400% margin? One would think if they didn't know, they wouldn't be marking it up so high at all... Also the seller's innocence gets even more suspicious when the reality is that MANY people are doing it, not just one or two as per the pic in my OP eludes to
.

That's what I'm saying. That they DO know how much these are fetching. That's why they are marking them up so high. You don't have to be a fan of a band to understand the economics behind what collectible merch is bringing on eBay.

 

[jem777az]

Because in the Agalloch case, most of the stuff is only available during their tours - and I don't see a non-fan buying a ticket to go to the concert just to buy the rare merch...

You wouldn't spend $20 to make $200? I know I would.

 

[AngraRULES]

You wouldn't spend $20 to make $200? I know I would.

Not sure if it's worth the hassle. I still see a difference between value and cost. If it's a band I really like (say Angra), I'd rather have the item than $200.

Would I sell my Angra Reaching Horizons tape for $200? No. Now, if you offer me $300....