Electronic drums, and their use

[Uros]

Hi,

I am interested, whats are main disadvantages of using say, a Yamaha DTXPress IV e-kit as a midi controller, and then later trigger it with say, DFH 2 or something similar?

Apart from Meshuggah, there are no other "pro" metal albums to my knowledge recorded this way (Morbid Angel on Gateways, but it sounds bad imo). Sure, this way there is no wood resonating and all that, but whats the deal?

Are there some other things that prevent people to use e-kits and then later use samples? Can you get convincing "real drum sound" by using the e-kit and quality multi samples (after all, that e-kit is being played by a real drummer, so there are all those various velocities and imperfections in timing)?

Cheers!

 

[El_Gato]

It has its advantages and disadvantages:

E-kit advantages:

-1000 times better than drum progr. because of the real player (as you pointed out) and cos' you can also use real cymbals. As you're using real samples, you can have a very real character if you can recreate a nice room (convolution reverb)
-Fast setup via midi and a pair of OHs.
-Fast editing.
-No bleeding into other mics.
-You don't need an expensive drumkit to sound decent.
-Neighbours won't call the cops.

Disadvantages:

-Nothing like the real thing if you have a good kit, good/new/tuned heads, good drummer, mics, nice and isolated room...
-Skills to sound as close as reality as possible: room, velocities, quantization.

To sum up, you'll see what you have available and move from there.

 

[ahjteam]

Apart from Meshuggah, there are no other "pro" metal albums to my knowledge recorded this way (Morbid Angel on Gateways, but it sounds bad imo). Sure, this way there is no wood resonating and all that, but whats the deal?

The Cyan Velvet Project, Def Leppard, Finntroll, Five Finger Death Punch (or then they have made their cymbals sound a lot like samples), Ziltoid, in addition to those all (or atleast most) Joey Sturgis stuff is just triggers plus cymbals

 

[Uros]

First of all - thanks!

So then what do you guys recommend? Is it worth a shot?
A drummer I know recently got one of these, so I am curious how good are they (or are they "precise" enough as a midi controller as far as velocities go). Definitely with check it out, but just want to know what can I expect.

*Currently, at my disposal I have: an ok acoustically treated room with ok drums (a Tamburo kit, I think its the XD Series); sm57s, km184s, 441s, d112(kick) and some other mics; going through M-Audio Project mix interface and optionally Mind Print DTC going through Project Mix' spdif connection for additional 2 channels;

Id like to have enough options to edit drums if needed be. It's much easier to edit them this way, but the question stands - are they good enough. Or - how much they lack of that "real feel/sound" comparing to close micing the real kit I have if Id use Metal Foundry SDX for samples.

So - my room isn't the greatest one, drums are just decent too. What would be better in your opinion?

Any additional info is appreciated!

 

[darthjujuu]

depends on the style of music really. most people are surprised to learn how much of the heavier stuff they listen to is programmed/all samples anyway. if you're after that hard gridded mechanical sound, there is nothing wrong with the e-kits. if you learn how to tweak/edit MIDI properly, and you're using superior and its expansions, you can get an extremely realistic sound. be ready to spend a good amount of time in that MIDI editor though, learning all the different neat quantize functions and how to do velocity properly.

 

[Demonstealer]

I use this for all the my stuff. The exact same thing. Yamaha DTExpress + DHF2 (now upgraded to superior2)

My DR stuff was done using this
www.gimmesound.com/DemonicResurrection or www.myspace.com/DemonicResurrection

my best work till date with this is
www.myspace.com/Workshopindia

 

[El_Gato]

Try both but I'd go with the real one if you have a good drummer, new heads and a tuner. You can find loads of useful tips here to make it sound good, then, you can blend some samples on it.

 

[Toni S.]

 

[El_Gato]

^wondering why is he using the plastic sides of the drumsticks on the kick pedals. He could also use real cymbals for a more realistic sound.

 

[Charlie E.]

Use the e-kit if you have little experience with micing drums and if your drummers are less than stellar.
Personally I like to use e-kits to do demos and pre-productions. It gets the band members all on the same page. Then record acoustic drums for the real thing.

 

[Sacha]

^wondering why is he using the plastic sides of the drumsticks on the kick pedals. He could also use real cymbals for a more realistic sound.

no particular reason, and yes we could

 

[El_Gato]

lol, I said so cause the kick head will last much longer, I guess it was the setup for the acoustic kick

 

[darthjujuu]

^wondering why is he using the plastic sides of the drumsticks on the kick pedals. He could also use real cymbals for a more realistic sound.

FACT: felt beaters will slowly destroy roland mesh heads. sadly, i know this from being a former guitar center employee.

 

[Uros]

some more thoughts, perhaps?

 

[Fredrik-Ablaze]

nocturnal rites have been all toontrack for the last four albums as well, he even uses them live

 

[narcossintese]

Use the electronic drum kit module for monitoring while playing, no matter how fake it sounds. Using samplers on real time, even Steven Slate Drums 3.5 is a bit weird. I also recommend using a speaker for monitoring, instead of headphones.

 

[El_Gato]

Be sure that your drummer gets used to the e-kit before you track if using it. The pad response is quite different from regular heads in acoustic ones. Also they're a bit smaller so better try a couple reharsals before tracking.

 

[Dexter_prog]

Use the electronic drum kit module for monitoring while playing, no matter how fake it sounds. Using samplers on real time, even Steven Slate Drums 3.5 is a bit weird. I also recommend using a speaker for monitoring, instead of headphones.

I'm wondering why, please, elaborate

 

[Charlie E.]

There's probably some latency involved but also the samples seem to not react as nicely as the e-kit sounds.
My drummer just puts up with it cuz he prefers the bigger sound but it's a valid alternative.

 

[narcossintese]

I'm wondering why, please, elaborate

Sampler´s latency can be very subtle, but it´s still enough to annoy while playing. Module´s response is always zero latency. Also, when I play monitoring through SSD 3.5 the cymbals never respond that good in terms of sensibility. Some hits comes very quitly while others comes blasting, it really affects the performance.

About the headphones maybe it´s a personal thing, but I´ve noticed that when not using them the performance is better. The speaker blasting the sound plus no headphone wire annoying the drummer´s movements usually make him much more pumped and able to deliver a better performance.