[...you can say that knowing snakes to be dangerous is a "belief that snakes are dangerous", but couldn't that also be called a fact? ...]
No. It is a belief. A fact would be that (some) snakes secrete a powerful poison from their fangs or that some snakes can exert an incredible amount of pressure by wrapping around their prey tighter and tighter. That snakes are dangerous is a consequence of most humans' inability to know what to do when one is near. A dog's bite can cause a lot of damage to a person, but do we consider dogs dangerous? I'm sure a mouse or a cat does, but we don't because we've spent literally thousands of years living with dogs and keeping them as pets and so we know how to treat them (yes, the domestication/devolution process has something to do with it, but not everything). But people aren't used to keeping snakes as pets, so they don't know how to treat them or what to do when they encounter one and often they act in stupid ways that end up in the snake biting them.
You seem to be suggesting a fairly narrow definition of fact, that I disagee with. I think that provided a statement is true, it can report a fact. Given it is true that snakes are dangerous (evidence is pretty easy to obtain) it seems fairly straightforward to suggest the picture of the world which paints snakes as dangerous is factual. I agree that the picture which paints (many of) them as possessing fearsome hunting abilities such as poisonous fangs or constricting ability is also factual, but it just seems pedantic to say that the statement "snakes are dangerous" isn't factual.
[...What I mean is, in what cases would it make sense to look up at a blue sky and say "I believe the sky is blue"? (...) An assertion of belief is only possible when there is ambiguity...]
In no case. It looks blue to you because light with a wavelength of around 400 nanometers is reflecting from Earth's atmosphere and getting to your eyes, but a person several hundred kilometers to the east or west sees the sky red or orange because light with a different wavelength is reaching their eyes. That the sky is blue isn't a fact; that the sky looks blue from a finite area at a particular time because blue light reflects from Earth's atmosphere in that direction is a fact.
... "in no case" was the conclusion I was hoping you would draw, although that wasn't the response I was expecting
![Stick Out Tongue :p :p](data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7)
I think a simpler way to say it would be "if I go outside and look up, whatever 'belief' I had about the sky's colour is dismissed". Simmilarly in discourse with others, maintaining a belief about the sky being a strange colour would be simply impossible without ridicule, and if maintained for long enough people would just refuse to speak to you.
The point about "the sky being blue" not being a fact simply is not true.
I don't think colour should be ruled out, simply because it depends upon a human observer (don't most 'things'?) and because in different light conditions it seems a different colour.
"snow is white" is a pretty classic example of a true statement, even though I'm sure if you shined an orange bulb onto snow it would look orange, and at night it goes black...
Now the key point is this, while it is possible to make statements sound more scientific by "removing ambiguity" (although I disagree that there ever was any ambiguity) it is unclear that these are better descriptions.
The example I am thinking of is the statement "the broom is in the corner". It is possible to analyse this statement and make it more 'prescise' by stating "the brush and the handle are in the corner". But I dont see why this is a
better description.
Likewise I don't see how a statement like "Sky appears to us as the colour that is illicited by light of wavelength of around frequency ### hitting our eyes and [insert neurological story here] happening in our brains..." is better (in terms of being more true) than "sky is blue". Indeed this seems to me to be, at best, a cumbersome way of saying the same thing.
To relate this back to emotions:
There are some circumstances where "belief" is not even a factor, and yet we want to say we have emotional responses to them. At best you can say the concepts are related in some cases. They cannot be dependant.
Heck even a Dog can experience fear if you back it into a corner. Even a fish apparently gets agitated if you spear it with a hook through the mouth. Do we really want to attribute beliefs to lower life forms?
SURELY emotions are something we had looong before we evolved into rational beings capable of beliefs?
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Just to set it straight, not because it has anything to do with anything said on this thread: it was more in the lines of "jews are evil because they have taken up all the job opportunities in Germany and run the country's economy even though not all of them are german" than "jews are greedy".
I don't think the two messages are contradictory - indeed Nazi propaganda was pretty thorough, they leveled just about every accusation possible against the Jews - including that they started world war two!
![Lol :lol: :lol:](/data/assets/smilies/lol.gif)
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http://www.calvin.edu/academic/cas/gpa/ww2era.htm#Antisem