Engl PB + Marshall JMP Recording. Help needed

[LSD-Studio]

Hell-o dear forumites.

up for auction is a recording I recently did..
actually it's not that I'm too unhappy with how the recordings turned out, it's just that I have some major Issues with the female voice.

she actually is a good singer and has a nice voice as long as it's a more quiet/sad/calm type of singing (see chorusses), but as soon as she tries to sing "harder" she pushes too hard and the voice gets somewhat smaller (verses).
I know that it's pretty much a problem with the way she's singing in those passages, but I wondered if you could supply me with some tricks to cure/cover that weakness..."kind of fix it in the mix", you know?

Help appreciated,..
..so are any other comments regarding the mix.

here you go:

Sleepless in a nightmare

thanks

 

[~BURNY~]

Double it...Maybe... Add some reverb...

 

[LSD-Studio]

Double it...Maybe... Add some reverb...

already tried and done

reverb doesn't do anything but make it even smaller in this case and it's already doubled....
re-tracking is not an option, so i assume i gotta live with it if there's not a magic plugin called "un-push-my-voice" or so....

edit:
version updated (solo added).

please post all your thoughts.

thanks

 

[KeithRT99]

the snare could use some reverb. The part where she's all 'something something, i'm afriad to die" would sound much thicker if she harmonized above and below it (probably minor 3rd's or some combination).

Also doubling the main vocal in that part could help. Another trick is to setup a delay on the vocals that reapeats on the quater or 16th notes of the song, then making the echo volume just low enough that you hear it's effect but it's not 100% obvious that there's an echo.

 

[LSD-Studio]

the snare could use some reverb. The part where she's all 'something something, i'm afriad to die" would sound much thicker if she harmonized above and below it (probably minor 3rd's or some combination).

Also doubling the main vocal in that part could help. Another trick is to setup a delay on the vocals that reapeats on the quater or 16th notes of the song, then making the echo volume just low enough that you hear it's effect but it's not 100% obvious that there's an echo.

thanks, but retracking (adding harmonies) is not an option,....needed like 160 takes per part in the first place!

I've already done the delay (8th and 16th) (you don't wanna hear it without ).

you're also right about the snare i think...

 

[Radd]

I listened to it 3 1/2 times.
Coming from a non pro or even semi-pro, I don't hear the problem at all if that means anything to you. It sounds fine to me.

While listening, I've been also listening to IF-Reroute to Remain & KE-As Daylight Dies so I'm comparing your mix to those.
The drums imo need to be a little brighter/clearer. The overheads maybe not as much. I hear a weird, bothersome high frequency that I thought was coming from the keys but now I think it might be the ride. Guitars sound very good. I hear bass but I don't hear a bass guitar. I know it's playing what the guitars are playing but I like to hear it as a separate entity regardless. This may be why I feel like there's something missing. (personal preference)

As far as adding harmonies, how about copying the vocal track(s) and put a harmonizer on them?

Overall it still sounds pretty good.
Trying to help.

 

[Nebulous]

The snare could be a bit brighter IMO. The vocals sound wierd in bits. Almost like she didn't quite double the parts all that great, and the double is turned up a little too loud. Otherwise, maybe you could pan them slightly to either side and see if it helps? I think the verb/delay could also be the trick. I'd personally give her a "singing on a huge cliff" sound for the heavy parts. Maybe even brighten the growls underneath, but turn them down a bit to compensate.

 

[LSD-Studio]

I listened to it 3 1/2 times.
Coming from a non pro or even semi-pro, I don't hear the problem at all if that means anything to you. It sounds fine to me.

While listening, I've been also listening to IF-Reroute to Remain & KE-As Daylight Dies so I'm comparing your mix to those.
The drums imo need to be a little brighter/clearer. The overheads maybe not as much. I hear a weird, bothersome high frequency that I thought was coming from the keys but now I think it might be the ride. Guitars sound very good. I hear bass but I don't hear a bass guitar. I know it's playing what the guitars are playing but I like to hear it as a separate entity regardless. This may be why I feel like there's something missing. (personal preference)

As far as adding harmonies, how about copying the vocal track(s) and put a harmonizer on them?

Overall it still sounds pretty good.
Trying to help.

thanks

wow, you're right about thats weird frequency, good ears!
it's the ride rubbing on the stand that makes some strange noises when it swings.
can't do anything about it.

the band doesn't hav a bassplayer, so one of the guitarists played that bass (and used a crappy squier jazz bass), don't wanna say too much, but I decided to rather hide it .
I'm gonna try to brighten up the drums a bit (at least snare)
tried the harmonizing stuff---didn't work.

I listened to it 3 1/2 times.
Coming from a non pro or even semi-pro, I don't hear the problem at all if that means anything to you. It sounds fine to me.

ouch, I consider myself being a pro....sounding non-semi-pro is not what I wanted to achieve
or did you mean your ears are semi-pro?

The snare could be a bit brighter IMO. The vocals sound wierd in bits. Almost like she didn't quite double the parts all that great, and the double is turned up a little too loud. Otherwise, maybe you could pan them slightly to either side and see if it helps? I think the verb/delay could also be the trick. I'd personally give her a "singing on a huge cliff" sound for the heavy parts. Maybe even brighten the growls underneath, but turn them down a bit to compensate.

will try that, thanks.



EDIT:
Thanks and done (link updated). definitely like the snare better now!
not sure about the verse-vox-verb...too much now?

 

[Radd]

3 more times.
Aaahhh, much better now.

ouch, I consider myself being a pro....sounding non-semi-pro is not what I wanted to achieve
or did you mean your ears are semi-pro?

I meant that I am not a pro nor even a semi-pro. More a music listener. Just a hobbyist who still has a lot to learn about digital audio recording. Because of this I feel weird giving people here suggestions but they seem to be beneficial most of the time so what the hell.

The new mix sounds soooo much better now. I still wish I could hear a bit more bass guitar or even simply more bass frequencies but that's ok.

I kind of like this song now. It really would sound a whole lot better with harmonies and doubling all over the place. It's a shame that can't be done. You said you tried the 'copy track and add harmony effect to it' thing but didn't work.
Why? Did it sound like crap? I guess you would have to have a super high end harmonizer for it to sound real?
The reverb sounds good.

The ride. Replace it?. Grease it or maybe try to place a piece of thin cloth material between the ride and stand? Make a sample of the new and improved ride then replace? I don't know, just shooting out ideas here.

Other ideas that could be interesting and fun would be to add a choir along with that backing vocal during the chorus and also a phaser on the guitars during the chorus. The chorus just seems a little empty and needs something and since more vocals are out of the question, well...

Nice job, well done, blah blah blah.

 

[Keessi]

boost the high's of the vocals(4khz hi-shelf) about 6-10db. and then compress the fuck out of the vocals. and then add a de-esser for the s's and other annoying consonants. hmm. Maybe autotune some parts? Distortion(only mild!) would do some good maybe. even for the drums too(not overheads though)

 

[Nebulous]

Here comes the personall preference. i like the vox verb alot better now. For some reason I like to hear it on chick vocals.
Hm, maybe in the grovy break bit in the middle you could bring the verb down, or add some panning to make the vocals sit better there. They're almost too "soft", not agressive enough or somehting.

 

[broken81]

Yea i agree a lot beter now and im diging the song i like that chicks voice personally i think its diffrent. Good song and good job

 

[AStacy2]

I've got harmonies to work in pretty bad situations by loading the vocal track into Melodyne then bringing them up a 3rd or whatever you prefer. Since she has a higher voice it might be cool to even EQ the harmony part backwards from the main vocal and see how that works. Just an idea, not the best case scenerio but I've been able to do it with people who couldn't do the backup vocal takes sometimes.

 

[LSD-Studio]

thanks dudes.
updated the song, added some more bass (frequency and instrument), and added some distorted snare underneath.

same link

(bass too loud now?)

 

[Radd]

I like it...alot...as should the band. Rather pro sounding imo.

 

[Nebulous]

I can't be certain of the extra bass, but I like what the distorted snare has added!

 

[Mr. Brokenamp]

Sounds good like the Eurythmics goes metal
Maybe make the snare more prominent and for the chorus have her sing not a harmony but a counter line.