ENGLs.... Framus, amps in general.

J the TyranT

J the TyranT

Thats just how it is...
Dec 14, 2001
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Alright well... I got a few bucks saved up, and Im needin to get a decent rig once and for all...

Now I dont have a SHIT TON.. so, moving right along...

I already know the details surrounding everything Peavey and everything Mesa...

What about:

Framus, VHT, and ENGL?

Ive heard the Deliverance has no effects loop...

And the Pitbulls are out of my league for sure... lol.

Is an ENGL Fireball a good way to go, or is it too bare bones? I really dont need tons of cleans or versatility, but, it could be nice.

Havent heard much about Kranks lately, either..

Anybody with any experience with Krank, Framus and ENGLs, come spill the beans...

And let me know where I can get a deal! lol

BTW... I doubt I have to say this is gonna be for metal, right?

Like Soilwork meets Sybreed meets SYL or some shit...?
 
I've played a Framus Cobra through a Budda 2x12 cab, and honestly found it very fizzy, though in a thread I started about the experience, people said that that goes away at higher channel volumes (it's really pricey, though, and I didn't find it worth more than a $1,500 amp). I want a Fireball desperately; I've only played a Savage 120 (in Germany, no less) which was god-like, but I'd imagine the FB would be sweet too - the problem is, the FX loop isn't switchable, which for me means it could never be my live amp until I get a MIDI foot board for my Rocktron Xpression. Ditto on the Deliverance, especially cuz it indeed has none at all. Krank I know little about; I actually tried to play a Krankenstein at a Sam Ash AND IT WAS THE LOUDEST FUCKING THING AT THE LOWEST VOLUMES I EVER PLAYED HOLY GOD. I couldn't even play it in the store, cuz the volume was either "off" or "death" (at least by guitar-store standards). This has little bearing on its sound, but something to keep in mind; maybe the Revolution is different (either way, see the thread "The Truth about Krank" in the standard part of the forum). There's the EVH 5150III as well, just for your consideration.

For me, I was going through a very similar debate this past summer, and I settled on a JSX for it's incredible clean channel, surprisingly sweet crunch channel (which I use for leads, and thus can dial in a higher channel volume), and awesome switchable FX loop. That and the fact that I got it mint on ebay for $850 :heh: (no better place for deals). Plus, it's got an easily-accessed bias adjuster pot and can quickly go between EL34- and 6L6-type tubes.

It's a tough call to be sure; good luck man!
 
The Framus Cobra is an pretty good rhythmic amp.

Definately has a hi presency sound at low volumes but all that goes away once cranked.

The mid knob isn't just a mid knob. It seems to just totally change the amp as a whole. I mean of course you are going to cut better etc. But it just turns into into a thumping thick wild beast. The mid knob is unlike any other amp I've played.

Massive low end so you don't need to crank the deep or bass at all.

I had it at the same time as a 5150 and PB.

ampstack.jpg


I still prefer the 5150. Didn't like the leads too much on the Framus.
 
Is a Fireball worth looking at though? Or is it too bare bones to be of use?

Maybe not.. I mean, Im just looking at a serviceable metal amp for now... maybe Ill splurge some hardcore cash on an SE or something extreme in the future.. but for now...

And if anybody knows of anything else to recommend, let me know.. stay around a $1000.

JSXs? Ive played through one once... sounded good, but, can it get fucking BRUTAL? Behemoth brutal?
 
I wanted a 6505+/5150 II for quite some time when I got a good deal on a Fireball. Tried it out and loved it. To me the Fireball sounds a bit more open and less compressed compared to the Powerball (sure, there also über-amps like the SE or the Invader, but they haven't been an option due to their price).

The Fireball is pretty much perfect for me because I just need "the amp" and not many gadgets. A noise gate, channel-separate eq's and two separate gain controls would have been nice, but it's ok. Some people complain that they have to readjust the gain when they're switching to the clean channel, to really get it clean. But I don't have that problem, I hardly turn up the gain more than a quarter to the half (the amp has shitloads of gain). So you have to keep in mind that this isn't the most versatile amp out there. This may be a one trick pony, but it does the trick damn good (balls out metal that is). In the end, the simplicity of the amp was one of the main reason why I choose it.

Prices for used Engls are quite high here right now, lots of people are going for the PB and FB at the moment.

Edit: Only drawback from buying the FB was that I had to get a different cab, because my old (Jensen loaded) cab was holding back the amp (sound was a bit muddy, too much feedback). Playing now through Celestion Seventy-Eighty, and played through several V30 cabs, it just sounds fucking brutal. So much low end but still definition and a nice midrange.
 
Im digging the Fireball idea right now... if only because its not that common.

Which Im sure will also be a fucking nightmare for me if it ever were to take a shit!
 
I'm an ENGL guy myself. I own the SE and tried several Engl amps before (Savage 120 SE, Blackmore, Fireball, Powerball...) and like them all. Among those amps you mentioned there are no bad amps... just amps with a specific character. ENGL = balls, tightness, definition. You should try an ENGL rig with YOUR guitar (very important) to see if you like the character of the ENGL amp.

As you may know already, the cab you use your amp has a lot to do with the final sound you get. V30 loaded cabs are the "standard" for Engl cabs, but people can dislike V30s and i've heard a lot of people loving their ENGL head with cabs with Greenbacks, P50 (VHT) or X-pattern a la Bogner (V30 + GT75). Then the settings you will use on the amps when trying. ENGLs have the reputation to be quite fizzy, and have a shitload of gain, and are known for being ballsy and tight, so if you try one, especially for rythm, don't use too much gain (10h30 will be fine), not too much presence either (i suggest something around 11 o'clock), use a decent amount of mids (12'), and be careful with the bass (don't dime the kinda "resonance" pot if there is one (called the "depth punch" pot on the Powerball) and be careful with the "Lo-End boost" kinda switches (Having them on can muddy up your sound and make your sound compete with your bass player which is pointless)).

I'm not a fan of the 5150 (it's decent but everytime i tried it i dislike its character, i should maybe give it a new try) but i remember i liked the XXX very much when i tried it. It was tight and was good for brutal shit.

EDIT : talking about affordable and good working amps for metal (5150, XXX, Fireball, Blackmore, Framus Cobra...), i just remembered o should have mentioned the LABOGA Mr Hector amp which could be a good pick for you as well. You may have heard about it, but LABOGA is a recent amp/cab brand from Poland. Their price is quite cheap because it's made in Poland (but they are quality amps). As Ran and Mayones guitars (Polish guitar brands), Laboga is getting more and more popular/used in the metal scene (most Polish death metal bands are using it... Behemoth and so on.. and more and more "international" bands/producers are coming to it (can't remember names right now)), and i've mainly read good reviews of them. The day i went to a store to try tons of heads with my EMG 81 loaded guitar, i mainly tried ENGl stuff (Fireball, Blackmore, Powerball, SE... I ended up buying the SE :) ) but i also tried a Brunetti head (i highly disliked it), the XXX (liked it a lot) and the Laboga Mr Hector, and the latter sounded great. It's said to have a voicing in between 5150 and Dual Recto.
 
Why is it when anyone here mentions Framus its always the Cobra? Ive never been to impressed with the Cobra but Ive bought a Dragon and love it
 
I pretty much agree with all of Djabthrash's and slashvanyoung's posts, alot of good advice there!

I own the Fireball and can totally recommend it if you want to get a no-frills metal amp. It is a one-trick pony but does that trick VERY well... it's tight and clear (do not put gain above 12 o'clock except if you have very low output pickups!). However I use the Fireball with a Boss GT-5 in the 4-cable method, which gives me all the versatility I could ask for while still being capable of using the preamps distortion.
A great feature on the Fireball are the independent double master volume knobs, which you can use for a solo boost if you get the footswitch. Without the footswitch the master volumes are dedicated to the low/high gain channel respectively.

I agree on the fizz, it is there and quite hard to get rid of.
I did try the Invader a few times and found that channel 3 on that beast is voiced pretty much exactly like the Fireball but with less overall fizz... therefore the Invader is the only amp that I'm even thinking about upgrading to at all.

Since I live in Germany, of course the ENGL's are also a great choice because of the price... nothing better in that price range IMO.

BTW, I also liked the JSX when trying it out. Sounded great on all three channels, so it's definitely more versatile than the Fireball. As was said above, the switchable FX loop is a plus on that one.
 
Like I said, I lust for a Fireball (or Blackmore, gotta compare the two) as a second amp - and the Laboga looks sweet as hell, though is 2 grand...
 
Resurrecting this thread to ask:

How about the new Engl Invader?

I understand the difference in voicing between the PB, Savage and Blackmore... so where then does the Invader fit in?

All help appreciated.
 
Ive heard the Blackmore was originally based somewhat off the Savage, but made to be a bit warmer... and a bit more "rock" oriented... I guess its generally cleaner than what most of us would typically use, although that apparently doesnt mean you cant whoop ass with it.

The Powerball apparently is a bit lower, ballsier, and more compressed with less headroom... leads dont take off as much.. a bit more bite and crunch apparently... this is just what I hear.

And the Savage is midrangey or even a bit higher.... lots more headroom, and a bit warmer and smoother clean that the PB... *shrugs*

So Im wondering where the Invader fits in on all that... although it IS EL34 driven... so, that could sum it up right there... sorta?
 
DUDE IF U CAN AFFORD IT, GET A VHT DELIVERANCE!

they are f@ckin sweet bar the price tag.

Take what cab ur gonna use with the head into great consideration,
im a VHT man myself. I love the P-50-E speakers you get in the Fat Bottom cab.

Id stay away from Celestion V 30s I have no idea why they get so much praise in here. I had them in an Engl cab and it sounded gay up next to the VHT.

If you can't afford a deliverance head id def go for a 6505 and stay clear of the engl/mesa range man and Celestion speakers.

haha keep in mind thats just my personal taste i guess.
 
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