Epica "The Classical Conspiracy" to take place in June

[RiffDaemon]

If you can see Angela Gossow, she can see you.

If you can't see Angela Gossow, you may be only seconds from deaf.

Too good, sir

 

[DoomsdayZach]

That review caused quite the shitstorm over on the Epica boards...just classic. But I'd love to see this concert. I was wondering about that Paradisio DVD as well...I'll have to ask about that.

BTW Zach, I didn't know you perused this forum...first time I've seen you post here.

I just check the forum every now and then. Don't post much because i'm not with the progpower "in" crowd... or mafia as the case may be Only been to one progpower, it was cool. I am more just looking for a place to talk about true/power metal with people. Unfortunately for me, seems like most people here are exclusively prog.

I'm going to post the review, but with a bit of a warning. The style isn't for everyone, i'm sure some will be offended. There are legitimate points in there for anyone willing to check it out. In fact, after the epica board got pissy, I explained my review very fucking well and most of the folks there actually seemed to accept that it was a valid review even if they don't agree with it.

Here's the goddamned review.

The only thing I will say is before anyone says it is disrespectful to Simone, I would like to point out that I've seen worse things said by the fans. It seems the only problem with me saying it is that I hate the band.

 

[dcowboys311]

I just check the forum every now and then. Don't post much because i'm not with the progpower "in" crowd... or mafia as the case may be Only been to one progpower, it was cool. I am more just looking for a place to talk about true/power metal with people. Unfortunately for me, seems like most people here are exclusively prog.

I'm going to post the review, but with a bit of a warning. The style isn't for everyone, i'm sure some will be offended. There are legitimate points in there for anyone willing to check it out. In fact, after the epica board got pissy, I explained my review very fucking well and most of the folks there actually seemed to accept that it was a valid review even if they don't agree with it.

Here's the goddamned review.

The only thing I will say is before anyone says it is disrespectful to Simone, I would like to point out that I've seen worse things said by the fans. It seems the only problem with me saying it is that I hate the band.

That review is fucking great

 

[Sir Exar Kun]

I'm going to post the review, but with a bit of a warning. The style isn't for everyone, i'm sure some will be offended. There are legitimate points in there for anyone willing to check it out.

Can someone give me the three minutes of my life back that I spent reading that drivel?

 

[dcowboys311]

Can someone give me the three minutes of my life back that I spent reading that drivel?

 

[rms]

That review was the best thing i've read lately

 

[Perditions Ghost]

Well, I certainly don't agree with the review, but I can see where you're coming from on some parts. Everyone has their own opinion. I personally love Mark's growls.

Oh, and I would still give a shit even if the band didn't, as you said, "have a sweet set of tits onstage". I like the band for the music, not for the eyecandy.

 

[BlackRoseMetalHeart]

The difference in popularity between a band like Epica and Within Temptation is HUGE. Within Temptation practically sold out a large venue in NYC w/ a crappy opener. Epica maybe had 150 people with a better overall bill. After Forever & Epica are left in the dust by all the other bands you mentioned.

I was speaking globally (looking back Arch Enemy may not have been the best pick for a band with global appeal). It seems you are speaking just in terms of the US. In Europe, my understanding was that, Epica and After Forever are huge over there as well, selling out large shows and festivals.

Of course, I thought "We Will Take You With Us" was one of the worst music DVDs I've ever watched and would have been 100x better simply as a bonus disc for a special edition of Phantom Agony rather than a completely different product. I'm kind of pissed I spent money on the thing.

I really liked the "We Will Take You With Us" DVD/CD set. I would count the DVD book that came with it that I had signed by each band member at PP VII among one of my favorite pieces of memorabilia (and while I do like Epica a lot, they are not my favorite band). But regardless of the sentimental value, I'm really glad I spent the money on that special edition DVD/CD and enjoyed the making of footage. The CD was on regular rotation in my player for a long while. Unfortunately, I am missing my Phantom Agony CD. I need to re-purchase that. It's a great album.

Ok, I know that.
Weird because their style is nothing slightly comparable to the other bands in her list.

I agree with Empress in that I don't really think of "female-fronted band" when I hear Arch Enemy

Yes, the styles are very different and I know a lot of folks like to box in the idea of "female-fronted" metal - typically symphonic or gothic metal, occasionally power - but the range in styles for female-fronted metal are vast: from Within Temptation to Arch Enemy to Doro to Leaves' Eyes to Bloodflowerz to Beautiful Sin to Holy Moses (and that's just a handful of bands). They are all very different, each with their own unique qualities (musically and vocally), but they all have female singers.

Well, I certainly don't agree with the review, but I can see where you're coming from on some parts. Everyone has their own opinion. I personally love Mark's growls.

Oh, and I would still give a shit even if the band didn't, as you said, "have a sweet set of tits onstage". I like the band for the music, not for the eyecandy.

PG - It seems you and I are on the same page when it comes to Epica. I don't go see bands with female singers for the eye candy. (I can stand naked in front of my mirror at home for free. ) I go because I like bands with female vocals. I don't typically like growl vocals, but I like Mark's growls as well.

DoomsdayZach - Although I can find this review amusing, it is really hard for me to take it serious. While I don't think The Divine Conspiracy is Epica's finest work, I don't think it's as bad as you make it out to be. I agree that Epica needs to do a little less orchestration, and a little more writing, and I agree that they are a bit repetitive at times, but there are few other things that I can agree with in this review (which initially reads more like soft-core porn).

If your going to spend more time talking about how you'd like to boink the lead-singer of the band and about how disappointed that her "naughty bits" are covered up, then it's really hard for me to believe that you actually put any effort or thought into writing a fair review of this band. The fact that you start the review with the phase "Ugh… chick metal," is enough indication for me that you don't care in the first place based solely on the band having a female singer, even if the band is great. I too hate how so much emphasis is placed on female singers' appearances as opposed to bands' talent, but I wouldn't spend 4-5 paragraphs of 9 paragraph review of a CD focused on that aspect. Perhaps you are one of those "sex deprived male fans" mentioned in your review who can't seem to focus on anything else?

Regardless of what you have heard other "fans" say about Simone, that doesn't change that what you say about Simone (particularly in the first paragraph) is "disrespectful." It's a cop out to say "It's ok for me to do it because others have done it." Whether or not you appreciate the true natural talents she has (her voice, not her looks), that doesn't change the fact that she is a talented singer with a pretty wide range and good stage presence. She has guested on albums of Kamelot, Primal Fear, Aina, and Ayreon - bands/groups that I would imagine would not pick out guest singers based alone on looks.

 

[rms]

His review of the CD was spot on, and I don't think Epica would get as much attention if there was a much uglier singer, I personally dont hear anything mindblowing from the 2 Epica albums I have.

And Arch Enemy is probaly the most mainstream female fronted band? Maybe Lacuna Coil now but idk

 

[rockyracoon]

One can intelligently and respectfully critique a band, album, etc. without sounding like a 5 yr old. In fact, most times that is what takes place on this forum. This review carries little to no merit whatsoever, though it doesn't shock me at all that some would eat it up with a spoon. After all, shit does attract flies.

 

[DoomsdayZach]

If your going to spend more time talking about how you'd like to boink the lead-singer of the band and about how disappointed that her "naughty bits" are covered up, then it's really hard for me to believe that you actually put any effort or thought into writing a fair review of this band. The fact that you start the review with the phase "Ugh… chick metal," is enough indication for me that you don't care in the first place based solely on the band having a female singer, even if the band is great.

Please ignore the fact that i said the first two After Forever albums were fantastic. Oh... you did.

Regardless of what you have heard other "fans" say about Simone, that doesn't change that what you say about Simone (particularly in the first paragraph) is "disrespectful." It's a cop out to say "It's ok for me to do it because others have done it." Whether or not you appreciate the true natural talents she has (her voice, not her looks), that doesn't change the fact that she is a talented singer with a pretty wide range and good stage presence. She has guested on albums of Kamelot, Primal Fear, Aina, and Ayreon - bands/groups that I would imagine would not pick out guest singers based alone on looks.

It's not a cop out. It's calling bullshit on a double standard. Those who know me know I'm not a misogynist or chauvinist, so it's really neither here nor there what people on the internet think. Simone's stage presence is debatable. I'd rather see Doro. And as for her guest appearences, well, that Kamelot song was pretty good, but hardly great. The Primal Fear album she guested on is widely considered to be the band's worst album (and it is... GIVE ME NUCLEAR FIRE!!), Aina is hardly even a consideration for listening material IMO since it's one of the weakest Rock/Metal opera's since that Genius one or whatever the fuck it was, and the new Ayreon is hardly worth getting excited about in my eyes. And let's not forget, even Arjen's lyrics in Web of Lies focus around how Xavier thinks she's "looking great". Sure, you can tell me it fits with the story and is some deep, meaningful line, but i won't buy it.


I'm just gonna copy and paste some stuff from the Epica forum because i've addressed all of this before. Glad some of you took the time to read it, and I mean that honestly. Ok, here's my replies, and remember that a lot of it was based on accusations thrown my way so it may not make sense in the context of *this* particular thread, but no matter.

Hey, I just wanted to stop in and say a few things. I wrote that review that was posted a few pages back from Global Domination... Hey guys. how goes? My name is Zach Palmer.

A few quick points to explain my side of things:

1) First and foremost, I didn't write the review with the fans in mind. There's no point in writing for the fans of the band or else it's just a self-congratulatory clusterfuck, and that doesn't do anyone who is a potential buyer any good. You guys already know you are going to buy it, so it's not to appeal to the fans.

2) Lord K had nothing to do with it except post it. I just thought I'd point that out. It made me laugh.

3) There are plenty of valid points in that review that pertain to the band IF you chose to look past the Simone comments (which I guess no one here can do).

4) And speaking of Simone... ahh yes. First, of course I wrote that to get a reaction. Loved every second of reading it too. I know, i know, I'll probably be called a troll and immature again, and that's fine. But let me explain a few things. First of all, the point was not so much my sexual desires for an attractive redhead who fronts a fairly mediocre band. It's not as though I sit around all day long thinking of Simone. Hell, I can name many women who I find more attractive, and in fact have dated women who are more attractive... the point of stating that over and over in the review is that her looks are the only thing even remotely extraordinary about the band. Again, that's a matter of opinion and I understand that, but again I'm not writing the review with the Epica fan forum in mind.

I also find it strangely ironic that most fans of Epica get all up in arms at the mention of Simone's ass coming from someone who doesn't like the band when I've heard much of the same coming from the bands fans. And there's no pretending that her physical appearance is not important to the band and their success.... she appears on the bloody cover naked for Christ's sake. That right there should tell you a lot. And the funny thing is that I probably have a hell of a lot more respect for women than most guys... but that's neither here nor there for most of you. I'm sure everyone still wants to think of me as a complete asshole. Feel free

2 final thoughts. 1) Mark says I have a small penis, which made me laugh. I guess if guys who dig Simone have small penis's... well... draw your own conclusions. 2) All my information (aim screen name, msn screen name etc) are legit. I'm not hiding anything. In fact, Epica are going to be in Seattle this Saturday, a show I'm not planning on attending. However, if Mark would like to meet and possibly do an interview for GD in which he is welcome to say anything he'd like about me, my review, Lord K, and not to mention a little bit about his band's album, I would be MORE than happy to show up. I'm not paying for a ticket though heh.

Anyhow, that's not a joke. I'd be happy to meet face to face and dispel any accusations that I'm just hiding behind my computer screen (hah... kills me every time).

Thanks for reading guys, I actually do appreciate anyone who took the time to read this. Still don't like the album and stand by my writing 100%.

@doomsdayzach: Ok.. It is all a matter of opinion.. you don't like the album and there are people that do. That is it. I still can't take your review seriously since you didn't really make any real points about the music itself. And no, i don't want to debate the album or the band with you. Eveyone is entitled to have his or her own opinion. But hey, we are well past that now, so no need to restart a whole argument over that again.

With all due respect, putting out criticism of someone's work then refusing to discuss it is a mighty big cop-out. Also, I honestly don't understand how you can say that there are no real points in the review. Maybe no real points that you agree with, but honestly to say that there is a complete lack of substance? No, you just don't take me seriously (as you said) and I don't ask you to. I don't take myself too seriously to be quite honest, hence my ability to write something that entertains me that much. Still, I do take my writing seriously, and while a lot of that review is very funny to me, it's honest and serious. The style of writing isn't for everyone, I'll grant you that.

Back to the point, I see quite a number of points that make this a legitimate review. Go ahead and re-read it:

http://www.globaldomination.se/reviews/epica-the-divine-conspiracy

In the second paragraph (yeah, the first one is fluff) I can count at least 3 valid points straight away without even thinking too much.

Also, this isn't a personal tirade against you. I could have brought up the same shit with any number of the posts on this forum, but you were just the first one to respond to my post so this was easiest.

Final note: Just to further my point that my Simone comments were not without justification and that yes, everyone is thinking the same thing but no one has the nuts to speak up... what's with the "Pictures of Epica / SIMONE" thread? There is nothing wrong with that in any way. That's a big portion of the band's vast appeal and they know it. It is what gets a lot of those guys in the door of the show with their girlfriends (don't pretend that this isn't the case... plenty of my friends and acquaintences have flat out said as much that this is the only reason they're going to see the band live). My point in bringing it up is that it's silly to have this underlying obsession, yet when someone brings it to the forefront it's "ZOMGWTF *angry face*"

edit: oh, by the way, I am in no way trying to change anyone's mind here. I think it's cool that Epica has such a broad and devoted fanbase and that the fans are so into the music (which I do understand that most people are not only interested in Simone). I just feel like I deserve an opportunity to defend my review, not to mention address the hypocrisy in some of the comments about it.

And for anyone interested, Mark never did take me up on the offer and he watches those forums.

My post can be found Here about halfway down the page, you can backtrack to see what i was responding to.

 

[dcowboys311]

The Primal Fear album she guested on is widely considered to be the band's worst (GIVE ME NUCLEAR FIRE!!),

I agree with a lot of what you said, but not this. Simone didn't write the album, so she can hardly be blamed for the quality of the songs. She served her purpose well.

Also, I really haven't seen too many negative reviews about the new Primal Fear, but that's just a sidenote.

 

[rms]

Who is Mark?

 

[BlackRoseMetalHeart]

Please ignore the fact that i said the first two After Forever albums were fantastic. Oh... you did.

I'm sorry. I did read that, but the fact that 50% of your review focused on talking about Simone's looks overshadowed it just a bit. It's not that what little you said about the album was wrong (although as stated already, I don't agree with most of it), it's just that the pieces of the review that had any merit were spaced so few and far between you talking about Simone's T&A that it doesn't help the review seem as credible.

I'd rather see Doro.

Finally! Something we agree on!

And as for her guest appearences, well, that Kamelot song was pretty good, but hardly great. The Primal Fear album she guested on is widely considered to be the band's worst album (and it is... GIVE ME NUCLEAR FIRE!!), Aina is hardly even a consideration for listening material IMO since it's one of the weakest Rock/Metal opera's since that Genius one or whatever the fuck it was, and the new Ayreon is hardly worth getting excited about in my eyes. And let's not forget, even Arjen's lyrics in Web of Lies focus around how Xavier thinks she's "looking great". Sure, you can tell me it fits with the story and is some deep, meaningful line, but i won't buy it.

My point was that those bands/individuals know music. You might not have liked their most recent releases (or only release in Aina's case), but that doesn't mean that they are going to pick a singer who stinks to be on their album. I also don't see how one line in a song constitutes as concrete evidence of the sole basis for her being picked by Arjen. But if her looks are the reason for being selected, than Arjen is either no more intelligent than the fanboys who will watch a band just for the eyecandy, or smart enough that he knows how to exploit them.

Also, I have to agree with dcowboys, I liked the new Primal Fear and haven't really heard any bad reviews about it.

Who is Mark?

Mark Jansen of Epica

 

[DoomsdayZach]

http://www.metal-archives.com/review.php?id=151216

 

[Jibrille]

I was speaking globally (looking back Arch Enemy may not have been the best pick for a band with global appeal). It seems you are speaking just in terms of the US. In Europe, my understanding was that, Epica and After Forever are huge over there as well, selling out large shows and festivals.

I was also referring to globally. Epica and After Forever are not as big as the others listed.
Dark Passion Play hit almost every major European market Top 10 except the UK (25).
The Heart of Everything was in the top 10 for a number of European charts with the "worst" showing #48 it Italy (UK was the next lowest at #38)
After Forever hit #6 in the Dutch charts, also their home country. Unfortunately I can't find any other info which could possibly mean they didn't chart anywhere else.
Divine Conspiracy entered charts mostly in the 30s and higher. The Dutch charts were the only ones they appear to have broken the top 10 (9) and they, again, are from there.

 

[KahlanRahl]

His review of the CD was spot on, and I don't think Epica would get as much attention if there was a much uglier singer, I personally dont hear anything mindblowing from the 2 Epica albums I have.

And Arch Enemy is probaly the most mainstream female fronted band? Maybe Lacuna Coil now but idk

I am thoroughly entertained right now. I like Epica but I LOVED that review And I think Lacuna Coil sucks. I promptly got drunk when their set started last time I saw them. Of course I didn't go to see them, they just happened to be headlining.
Anyway great review dude. No one can be loved by everyone I guess.

 

[BlackRoseMetalHeart]

After Forever hit #6 in the Dutch charts, also their home country. Unfortunately I can't find any other info which could possibly mean they didn't chart anywhere else.
Divine Conspiracy entered charts mostly in the 30s and higher. The Dutch charts were the only ones they appear to have broken the top 10 (9) and they, again, are from there.

My mistake, I thought I had heard that they had higher rankings in Europe.

I promptly got drunk when their [Lacuna Coil's] set started last time I saw them. Of course I didn't go to see them, they just happened to be headlining.

Was that the hottest chicks in metal tour, or another tour? That tour was the last I'd heard of them heaedlining. Just wondering what other band(s) you were there to see.

 

[KahlanRahl]

Was that the hottest chicks in metal tour, or another tour? That tour was the last I'd heard of them heaedlining. Just wondering what other band(s) you were there to see.[/QUOTE]

Yep the hottest chicks tour. I went to see Within Temptation and Stolen Babies. Stolen Babies is really quite awesome, way different from the other bands there. And Within Temptaion's debut here in the states was damn good. You could tell they didn't really know just how popular they were over here.

 

[Jibrille]

Yep the hottest chicks tour. I went to see Within Temptation and Stolen Babies. Stolen Babies is really quite awesome, way different from the other bands there. And Within Temptaion's debut here in the states was damn good. You could tell they didn't really know just how popular they were over here.

I saw that in Montreal. NYC sold out before I got tickets. I ended up leaving after WT played so I could get home at a somewhat reasonable hour (3 am instead of 5). Stolen Babies was awesome as well. Then I saw WT again in NYC the same weekend I saw Epica. The only downside is that WT REALLY needs to play older songs besides the singles from Mother Earth & Silent Force. I want to hear songs like Jillian, Dark Wings, Aquarius, and especially, anything pre Mother Earth.