Evolution vs. Creationism... (dramatic music)

[Russell]

Unfortunately, I am an American student and they are teching "Intelligent Design," which in the case of our school, is taught that God created the original life that evolved into humans.

Yes, the more complete our knoweldge of evoultion becomes over the last couple of billion years, the further creationists push divine intervention. A lot of guesswork is involved in scientific studies of the origin of life, making it easier to slot god in as an explanation.

I thought, however, 'intelligent design' had now been thrown out of court as a violation of the first amendment, so maybe you'll get a reprieve soon. Next they're going to start calling it 'critical analysis of evolutionary theory', which is harder to argue with, as it is clear evolutionary theory should be critically analysed, just not with the same old irreducible complexity and other flawed arguments.

However (sorry if this is a bit off topic) I belive that evolution may end with humans, becuase instead of us adapting our bodies to the changing environment, we are adapting with new devices and technology.
Mabye I am just weird though.

I'd disagree on this, but I'd definitely agree that the mechanisms driving evolution/pressures on selection will change dramatically.

Our School Board is very religious, so thus all ideas that challenge the existence of God are frowned upon.

This is one of the main creationist arguments, that somehow religion and evolution are opposed, and sadly a lot of the public believe it is the case - it's one of the main obstacles preventing proper science education in creationist strongholds. A lot of scientists believe this is not the case; evolution only rules out reading the bible as literal truth, it can say nothing about the existence or otherwise of god. This logic is based on the fact that science is just a set of rules built by observing the natural world. A divine creator is inherently supernatural, and as such science can't, in itself, say anything about the existence of god.

 

[Έρεβος]

I'd disagree on this, but I'd definitely agree that the mechanisms driving evolution/pressures on selection will change dramatically.

Evolution never halts, but it doesn't always move a species forward. Right now, due to humanity's development of advanced cognition and misusing it, we are causing the rapid de-evolution of our species. As a species, we rely on technology and not our own wit or bodies; comfort is valued more than overcoming, more than strength. We hide from reality with our technology and masturbate, as such our species' strength is turning to mush: negative evolution due to our own ignorance.

 

[Russell]

Evolution never halts, but it doesn't always move a species forward. Right now, due to humanity's development of advanced cognition and misusing it, we are causing the rapid de-evolution of our species. As a species, we rely on technology and not our own wit or bodies; comfort is valued more than overcoming, more than strength. We hide from reality with our technology and masturbate, as such our species' strength is turning to mush: negative evolution due to our own ignorance.

Interesting, care to expand on this? We are in agreement that evolution does not halt (although the concept of 'forward' is pretty arbitrary in evolutionary terms), but I'd be interested to hear more of how you think our reliance on technology will lead to different evolutionary pressures on humans.

I can see a great number of factors in human societies which differ from the 'normal' pressures driving natural selection which could affect our evolution, but I'd have thought the effects of abandoning our wit/bodies or a reliance on comfort would affect neither sexual selection or survival to reproductive age in order to shape our development.

 

[infoterror]

Screw the whole debate. I'm less concerned with how life came about than how to apply natural selection to humans now. Thin the herd!

 

[derek]

If you can't eat 4 gallons of frozen yogurt in 30 minutes, you're gone. Or were you thinking of some base requirement of intellectual and moral fortitude?

 

[Έρεβος]

i get straight A's in university

And you use that as a measure of intelligence?

 

[MetalBooger]

Yes, the ability to earn high marks, is very much based on high intelligence, because not only is academic success important in determining you're mental ability, but also a major determinant of you're future success. By making wise and intelligent decisions now, i can build upon gaining more capital, and therefore fulfillment of my dreams. Thats pretty intelligent, what would you're definition of intelligence mean? Being able to read poetry and gain high scores on online IQ tests? Sorry but when it comes to making money, and power, that shit doesnt matter.

just a quick definition of intelligence: capacity for learning, reasoning, understanding, and similar forms of mental activity; aptitude in grasping truths, relationships, facts, meanings, etc.

So i guess by getting straight A's, that MUST mean i'm filling in all the criteria of the definition. You arent very intelligent are you?

 

[Nile577]

what would you're definition of intelligence mean?

Being able to read poetry? Sorry but when it comes to making money, and power, that shit doesnt matter.

"We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars"

 

[Έρεβος]

"We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars"

But most of "us" (them) care much more about collecting the biggest pile of feces.

 

[derek]

"We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars"

I love Oscar. I use that quote far too much.

 

[infoterror]

definition of intelligence: capacity for learning, reasoning, understanding, and similar forms of mental activity; aptitude in grasping truths, relationships, facts, meanings, etc.

True. But these are the passive skills. What about active abilities, like adaptation and leadership? I wouldn't consider intelligent anyone who could not apply eugenics to a medium-sized village within a 48 hour period.

 

[derek]

Define the boundaries of the eugenics you oh-so-constantly refer.

 

[MetalBooger]

Eugenics in my opinion implies interfering with human characteristics. The boundaries are therefore dependant on one’s own opinion on how much a specific entity should influence our lives. If you believe in liberty, the obvious boundaries would limit eugenics to the individual and possibly his direct family, or even none at all (supposing you chose to exterminate yourself or a family member, harm principle). Basically boundaries involving eugenics are dependant on personal ideologies, values, beliefs, culture, etc. It is fair to say that you’re values reign supreme (belief in eugenics), since many people are self centered and egocentric. But in reality where we (mainstream government) believe all people are created equally with the same rights to life, liberty and so on, it is impossible to even give a shred of support to eugenics, without the consent and respect of every single person that could be affected. Therefore the boundaries are very constricted when it comes to eugenics, in our society at least, because libertarian ideas that so strongly dominate our society will not allow Negative/Positive Interference in the lives of equal individuals, by a force other than the individual him/herself.

 

[Hell Breath]

It's proven already that we've evolved, not created

Amen!

 

[Majesty]

Yes, the ability to earn high marks, is very much based on high intelligence, because not only is academic success important in determining you're mental ability, but also a major determinant of you're future success. By making wise and intelligent decisions now, i can build upon gaining more capital, and therefore fulfillment of my dreams. Thats pretty intelligent, what would you're definition of intelligence mean? Being able to read poetry and gain high scores on online IQ tests? Sorry but when it comes to making money, and power, that shit doesnt matter.

just a quick definition of intelligence: capacity for learning, reasoning, understanding, and similar forms of mental activity; aptitude in grasping truths, relationships, facts, meanings, etc.

So i guess by getting straight A's, that MUST mean i'm filling in all the criteria of the definition. You arent very intelligent are you?

Or;
You are a brown-nose,
You are just very persistent (I have met many people who are actually quite dumb but after a lot of work can force lots of information into their heads for a small amount of time),
You are not taught any truths,
You can parrot other peoples reasoning,
You fail to see that the struggle for monetary gain helps quicken the pace in which our planet rots
etc.

Basicly what I´m trying to say is that grades do not equal intelligence. A persistant moron can get good grades.

 

[MetalBooger]

Well then i guess it brings up the question then, what good is intelligence in the real world? If i can perform critical thought, strategize, plan and succeed in academia, whilst also achieving professional, social and personal goals, then why do I need intelligence? In fact, does your version of intellect that you appear to separate from success, actually exist? I think your argument has actually weakened the notion of intelligence because you make it sound like it can be substituted for hard work. Since you detach intelligence from the institutions we use to measure it, you fail argue that intelligence actually exist, or if it does, that it is indeed important in determining one’s success and importance as a human being.

A persistant moron can get good grades.

Perhaps a down syndrome kid can get good grades if he works hard, but i havent heard of any examples.

 

[Scourge of God]

Well then i guess it brings up the question then, what good is intelligence in the real world? If i can perform critical thought, strategize, plan and succeed in academia, whilst also achieving professional, social and personal goals, then why do I need intelligence? In fact, does your version of intellect that you appear to separate from success, actually exist? I think your argument has actually weakened the notion of intelligence because you make it sound like it can be substituted for hard work. Since you detach intelligence from the institutions we use to measure it, you fail argue that intelligence actually exist, or if it does, that it is indeed important in determining one’s success and importance as a human being.

Stop arguing against strawmen, you crypto-kike homo.

I hope you die, you useless cunt.

 

[Majesty]

Well then i guess it brings up the question then, what good is intelligence in the real world? If i can perform critical thought, strategize, plan and succeed in academia, whilst also achieving professional, social and personal goals, then why do I need intelligence? In fact, does your version of intellect that you appear to separate from success, actually exist? I think your argument has actually weakened the notion of intelligence because you make it sound like it can be substituted for hard work. Since you detach intelligence from the institutions we use to measure it, you fail argue that intelligence actually exist, or if it does, that it is indeed important in determining one’s success and importance as a human being.



Perhaps a down syndrome kid can get good grades if he works hard, but i havent heard of any examples.

You Don´t
Not substituted, have you heard the saying "Persistance Pays Off"? Well it´s true.

You seem to put a lot of emphasis on "making it", "importance" etc. How do you define "importance as a human being"?
Is it having influence on a lot of peoples lives?
Why would wanting to be important having anything to do with intelligence?

Maybe someone truly intelligent would want to be alone with his thoughts without hordes of idiots wasting his time and inhibiting his creativity with their mundane thoughts and actions.

 

[Demiurge]

I do not understand the question posed by the poll. Is what pointless? This thread?

 

[Justin S.]

I do not understand the question posed by the poll. Is what pointless? This thread?

That's a given. For the time being, this thread is locked.