External Appearance

[speed]

How much does external appearance influence our lives?

External appearance has a very real and tangible impact on each man’s relation with the world. Everyday, each individual steps out into public (assuming ones is not an anchorite/cenobite or hermit of some form) one is judged based on ones external appearance. And this judgment is all encompassing: whether the person is white or black; male or female; well or poorly groomed; fashionable or out of touch; youngish-looking or old (perhaps even old-looking beyond their actual years); beautiful or ugly, athletic or out of shape, and so on. In fact, such immediate external judgments condition our attitudes about each person we meet. In a split-second one judges whether one will trust said person, or get to know them; whether or not this person has anything to offer, or whether one is romantically/physically attracted to said person. Indeed, this process off immediately sizing one up, and making such distinctions, has been covered quite well (considering its popular nature) by Malcolm Gladwell in his book Blink. Hence, many of the persons we choose or choose not to consort with, are those who pass this quick split second external test.

Now, such a process brings with it a number of interesting quirks. If one is beautiful or comely in some way, one will almost always be well-received and pass this split second test. If one is perhaps somehow odd—covered in tattoos, piercings, fat, ugly, or just different looking—well, then said person will probably not be well-received by the average person. Now, people and society have adjusted, and certain forms of dress, styles, and appearance have been deemed friendly or fashionable—in short, acceptable. Other styles of dress and appearance demarcate ones belonging to a certain group or way of life (i.e. the long hair and T-shirts of metal fans; the pale dank chromed look of Goths; the baggy colorful and heavily branded look of hip-hoppers; the dark-coat/suit and muted tie expensive and conservative look of businessmen, lawyers, politicians, etc.). In short, ones external appearance is consciously chosen to project a certain image one wishes to convey to society.

Thus far, it is obvious one makes judgment of others based on external appearance, and due to this fact, one dresses or creates an appearance of oneself that one wishes to project onto society. I am left with two ideas, and another I will discuss in the concluding paragraph. One, how accurate is this appearance one wishes to project (is it a mask?); and two, conversely, how does ones appearance affect ones understanding of oneself—I suppose of ones ontological being?

Finally, if physical beauty is always a positive, what problems does this create? “Beauty is truth, truth beauty,'-that is all Ye know on earth, and all Ye need to know.” Keats once penned. If we are predisposed to think of outward beauty as good—even possessing the truth—then what influence does this have on not only the beautiful themselves, but our own understanding of truth and the world? Is Plato in fact correct? Is the external form an impediment to our understanding of true beauty?

 

[Norsemaiden]

In some ways people put far too much emphasis on outward appearances. For example, if someone has been disfigured in an accident then a great many people will be very discourteous to them. They say that people, such as shop assistants, snigger about it and make cruel comments. This is really unfair.

On the other hand, there is certainly something to the saying "nature practices honesty in packaging". It is not always true, as there are plently of beautiful looking people who have very ugly personalities, but on balance I would say it is true. In the case of people who "let themselves go", and don't look after their bodies - this is a sign that they have some kind of problem imo. (Maybe some individuals just have been very unlucky and need some love, though most are probably degenerates).

We are all programmed to be discriminating. It is in our genes. Babies only a few days old stare at pictures of beautiful faces and turn away from ugly ones. Animals will pick on the defective looking individual in their group, and also may pick on them if they have an injury. It is nature's way of preventing bad genes from spreading. Humans still have this instinct, but we should be able to use our intelligence not to want to make someone unnecessarily unhappy.

People instinctively prefer to mix with others that they think are similar to themselves - something they judge largely by appearance.

In communist China they went through a phase of trying to get everyone to dress alike.
Hey I just found this reference that claims there were plans to make all Americans dress alike!

More serious even than nationalization of industry was the attempt to reduce all society to one class with no differences. Liberal circles, Jane Addams of Hull House in Chicago for instance, believed that there could be no true equality until all people wore the same clothes. This is a fact. I am not interested here as to whether such sameness was possible I am only relating the facts. Therefore, the WIB, War Industries Board, under the administration of Bernard Baruch, following directions from Wilson, had organized plans to limit the available clothing to two or three styles and shoes of the same quality thereby making people dress alike with no difference in style or quality. This is really extraordinary. As Baruch says in his autobiography, they would have done it too but the war ended too soon.

http://www.erbzine.com/mag14/1458.html

 

[Arthyron]

I don't know, I guess I just percieve the world differently than most. I generally don't accept/deny or like/dislike people based on how they look. As I said in another thread, I grew up being a part of multiple social circles and I never really fit into one particular category, nor did I ever try to. I take people based on their actions and the things they do, rather than how they appear.

I am very cognizant of how others treat people differently based on appearances. I am on the recieving end of strange treatment because of my appearance often times. A great many people are literally terrified of me. People give me wide berth in hallways or sidewalks, they avoid eye contact, when they are forced to interact with me they are extremely apologetic, they hold doors for me or plead that I go through a door before them, guys out with their girlfriends pull them closer when I walk by and glance at me with looks of contempt, I've even had 3 separate guys apologize to me for absolutely no reason in one night at a bar simply because they thought I was glaring at them. Some reasons for this are obvious (size, stature, hair, beard, etc), but I know other people with similar attributes are really moreso just ignored rather than feared. And this is not something I'm just imagining. People who did not originally know me but later got to know me admitted to the fact that beforehand they were scared of me. There's something about the unknown coupled with my appearance that makes me especially frightening for some reason, and I've always been curious as to what that is. I've often wondered if pheromones don't figure into things (as many scientists are apt to say they figure much more prominently than we often realize).

I work at my university's Fitness Center in the free weight/machine/bike/treadmill area, and it's really a great place for observing human nature in action, the way certain people interact with others, the way people carry themselves, the exercises they focus on. And yes, I've noticed that certain people who look a certain way tend to act a certain way sometimes. I don't TRY to classify people that way, but it's just what I've noticed. I think the reason is, the same people who prescribe to the same fashion sense or appearance paradigm will also desire the same things to be achieved from exercise, simply because they've accepted in their minds a certain social paradigm to which they believe they need to aspire to in order to "belong." For instance, here in the USA, fraternities (or frats) are a big deal on college campuses. A lot of guys from mid to upper class families are in frats, and they spend most of their time getting drunk or flirting with sorority females. Frat guys tend to wear polo shirts (often with the collars flipped up), flip-flops, have shaggy/buzzed/close cropped hair, lots of cologne, typically some jewelry (like a gold necklace or something), and wear a few particular brands of clothing (Abercrombie & Fitch, American Eagle, Hollister, etc). When guys who appear to be "Frat" guys come in to work out, almost all of them go straight for bicep exercises and abdominal exercises, neglecting the other parts of their bodies typically.

Some might say "well you have long hair, and a beard, and wear metal band t-shirts, you're obviously a metalhead." Well not quite. The times I don't wear metal t-shirts, I wear other stuff that isn't "metal." I sometimes wear slacks or dress pants with metal t-shirts. I wear metal t-shirts not because I want to emulate some sort of "metalhead" cultural paradigm, but because I like the bands, want to promote them, and think the art on metal band t-shirts is cool. I don't understand this aspiration to conform to a specific "look" or fashion.

I've often said that "fashion is a joke that people play on themselves." I think the concept that people should wear certain clothing or present themselves in such and such a way because certain people say they should or "it's what everyone else does" is laughable. I think people who believe in or fall prey to fashion are simply too insecure to be themselves, thus they cling to some cultural paradigm which they believe will give them identity. I say to hell with all that nonsense. Why not just be who you are and enjoy self-expression and individualism?

I don't "instinctively" mix with people who are like me. My friends are very ecclectic, coming from different backgrounds with different beliefs, different interests, different appearances, different aspirations. I don't understand how so many people can fall prey to such instinctual tendencies, as apparently I'm not normal...

 

[Omnis_Sathanas]

I've often said that "fashion is a joke that people play on themselves." I think the concept that people should wear certain clothing or present themselves in such and such a way because certain people say they should or "it's what everyone else does" is laughable. I think people who believe in or fall prey to fashion are simply too insecure to be themselves, thus they cling to some cultural paradigm which they believe will give them identity. I say to hell with all that nonsense. Why not just be who you are and enjoy self-expression and individualism?

I've always thought of fashion as arbitrary combinations of clothing which need to be constantly changing in order to remain profitable. But this is even more invasive on identity now, because marketing isn't simply based on selling a product anymore, it's based on "lifestyle brands" where you also buy into a certain image and aesthetic with corresponding activities based on the shopping choices you make (or at least that's the way advertising sees it these days).

 

[Blowtus]

Thus far, it is obvious one makes judgment of others based on external appearance, and due to this fact, one dresses or creates an appearance of oneself that one wishes to project onto society. I am left with two ideas, and another I will discuss in the concluding paragraph. One, how accurate is this appearance one wishes to project (is it a mask?); and two, conversely, how does ones appearance affect ones understanding of oneself—I suppose of ones ontological being?

Of course it's a mask, I would suggest. *But*, the fact that it's a chosen mask means judgements based on it can still have some validity
I appear relatively 'normal', a touch on the unkempt / 'not concerned with appearance' side of things. I do so because I believe it fits best the perception of myself that I want others to develop / receive, not because of something intrinsic to myself. (If it was purely down to how I wanted to look in the mirror I'd probably go a bit viking ) I feel uncomfortable in some other styles of dress, mainly because I fear others will assume that is the mask I think best suits me, when it is not.

Interesting thread

 

[Black Core]

first of all: good posting speed, really interesting thread.

anyway:
I think it's indeed like norsemaiden said, it's still a matter of survival of the fittest in this society. I've heard a pretty interesting saying about that: "We don't live in a society, we live in a colony of animals". don't remember who said it but it doesn't matter, the point is that we indeed still hang on to and live by our instincts just like animals.
Survival is all about groups, animals are also only strong if they belong in a certain group that sticks together. Any other animal who doesn't relate to the group in some way doesn't get it's way in the group. Same with ppl, anyone who looks diffrent is avoided or picked on.

I think it's obvious that one can't go into a hawaian shirt to work in an lawyer's office. But that's just how you look at it. In fact you should be able to but then you'd be fired most likely because the group of lawyers all wear suits so you get rejected.

Every individual looks and is diffrent and therefor should be able to show that diffrence without be looked at in a strange way but that's just not possible today. Dresscodes have been applied in certain pubs and bars, piercings and tatoos must be covered in school, and so on. I think it's not right, it supresses individualism and that leads to the exclution of ppl in groups today. Imagine a group that is composed out of all diffrent people with diffrent styles, clothes and appearance in total. Anyone could fit into that group and that's how it should be. Of course you have to able to get along with the other people in the group so it's not just based on appearance but most groups don't even give others a chance to express themselves because of diffrent appearance.

So I also agree with Arthyron there. People aren't sure of themselves and dress like everyone else.

 

[Blowtus]

So BC - you think people should be able to express themselves individually in terms of clothing, but then not express themselves when it comes to their judgements on others? You think all the billions of folk on the planet should be given equal hearing for us to decide who to associate with / how to treat them, and we shouldn't use the intellectual capabilties we have to filter quickly through the masses and generalise for the sake of expediency? Seems a fairly idealistic way to bog yourself down to me.

I don't think there's anything wrong with judging based on appearance - it's extremely useful. I think it becomes problematic when people refuse, or are unable to, append their judgements as more useful evidence comes to light.

 

[Black Core]

You can judge anyone you want but not without knowing them. You see someone and say things about that person while you have never talked to them, that's what I'm saying.

People aren't always who they appear to be.

 

[Omnis_Sathanas]

You can judge anyone you want but not without knowing them. You see someone and say things about that person while you have never talked to them, that's what I'm saying.

People aren't always who they appear to be.

This argument is very popular with a lot of people, but it doesn't work because:

1. People are "judgmental" by nature whether they realize it or not.

2. You can tell things about individuals based on their appearance, even if it's only very subtle or fairly insignificant.

 

[speed]

If I may, I'd like to reiterate one of central questions of the thread.

How much does external appearance, condition ones ontological understanding of ones own being?

 

[Black Core]

well that was what I was about to reply:
Some ppl actually dress the way they are, simple, rough, doesn't matter how, their personality fits their clothing. Whether they do so subconscious or they do it conscious, I don't know but in most cases people dress the way they want to be, want to be seen, mostly the way they want to be seen by people they like, to 'blend in' the group as stated a few times. This doesn't always work out well because the clothing might change the first thought about them but it doesn't show they personality so therefor most of the people can't be judged by appearance.

EDIT: but I must say Omnis_Sathanas is right that people are "judgmental" by nature

 

[speed]

well that was what I was about to reply:
Some ppl actually dress the way they are, simple, rough, doesn't matter how, their personality fits their clothing. Whether they do so subconscious or they do it conscious, I don't know but in most cases people dress the way they want to be, want to be seen, mostly the way they want to be seen by people they like, to 'blend in' the group as stated a few times. This doesn't always work out well because the clothing might change the first thought about them but it doesn't show they personality so therefor most of the people can't be judged by appearance.

Yes, I suppose I've already stated this fact in the opening essay of the thread. It explains why women have plastic surgery to match how they looked in their youth or dreams, how transgenders undergo surgery or dress to look like they feel or believe themselves to be.

 

[Blowtus]

How much does external appearance, condition ones ontological understanding of ones own being?

Do you mean purely in a 'look at yourself in the mirror' way? Or in the broader sense, as you exist in society's feedback loop? Seems a hard question either way

 

[judas69]

In some ways people put far too much emphasis on outward appearances. For example, if someone has been disfigured in an accident then a great many people will be very discourteous to them. They say that people, such as shop assistants, snigger about it and make cruel comments. This is really unfair.

On the other hand, there is certainly something to the saying "nature practices honesty in packaging". It is not always true, as there are plently of beautiful looking people who have very ugly personalities, but on balance I would say it is true. In the case of people who "let themselves go", and don't look after their bodies - this is a sign that they have some kind of problem imo. (Maybe some individuals just have been very unlucky and need some love, though most are probably degenerates).

We are all programmed to be discriminating. It is in our genes. Babies only a few days old stare at pictures of beautiful faces and turn away from ugly ones. Animals will pick on the defective looking individual in their group, and also may pick on them if they have an injury. It is nature's way of preventing bad genes from spreading. Humans still have this instinct, but we should be able to use our intelligence not to want to make someone unnecessarily unhappy.

People instinctively prefer to mix with others that they think are similar to themselves - something they judge largely by appearance.

In communist China they went through a phase of trying to get everyone to dress alike.
Hey I just found this reference that claims there were plans to make all Americans dress alike!

http://www.erbzine.com/mag14/1458.html

Interesting.

One correction if I may, infants have horrible visual acuity at birth and long after to the point of not being able to discern anything. Forming any aesthetic judgment is also likely to be very premature assuming better acuity.

 

[Norsemaiden]

I made that comment about babies based on this article in the New Scientist
http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn6355
Babies prefer to gaze upon beautiful faces

From what I remember though, it is true that it takes several months of gradulal development of sight until they can focus on objects several meters away.

 

[Norsemaiden]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17fEy0q6yqc

Multiculturalism is so cruel. Here is the truth of how Black women want to be White and Black men prefer White women.

One Black woman told another that she wouldn't want to have kids with a dark skinned man, because she wouldn't want that in her gene pool!