External Drive Really Necessary?

Melodeath

Moonbow
Feb 6, 2004
3,045
2
38
Northern VA
I "switched" to Mac a couple months ago, meaning I have no external hard drives that I can backup my files on my mac from (Mac uses HFS+ file format and all of my external hard drives are formatted NTFS for Windows). On my desktop PC before the mac, I had two internal hard drives, one for software, one for audio. When I built the PC I was following the "common knowledge" of keeping your audio drive separate to lower straight on your CPU and drives. Makes sense, they're both internal drives and SATA speed.

Well, my Mac is a Macbook Pro, meaning it only has one internal drive. I haven't had to do more than two tracks recording simultaneously since I bought the Mac, so I've just been recording to the internal drive and everything has been fine. I have been doing mixing with tons of tracks, but again, it works fine using the internal drive for storage.

All this got me thinking though, the MBP only has one firewire port, which I'm using for my audio interface (Focusrite Liquid Saffire 56). I can daisy-chain an external firewire drive, but that's the best I can do. So, I was thinking, is 10 audio tracks at once going through firewire to the mac, back out to the interface then to the external drive really faster/more reliable/better than just recording those tracks to disk in the mac and skipping all those extra steps?

Unrelatedly, but ironically, I was emailing Focusrite about a small non-recording issue I was having with my interface, and they asked if I was daisy-chaining anything tot he interface. (I do have a NTFS drive hooked up that I'm using to access some old files). They told me they didn't recommend daisy-chaining any devices with their interfaces. So I thought (and asked them), "well if daisy-chaining isn't recommended, how are you supposed to record audio to an external drive when using a Macbook Pro?"

Focusrite replied:
It is actually faster, and less resource intensive to write your audio to your internal hard drive than it is to an external hard drive. It is really a question of storage. When you start to use up all the space on your internal HD is when your system performance begins to be affected. Plus, you can always copy the audio there later.

So, according at least to Focusrite, it's better to record audio to the internal laptop drive than to use an external drive. This is interesting because it goes against all advice I've always heard for YEARS about using an external firewire drive for recording. Maybe that advice was more pertinent with the older operating systems like XP, and is no longer valid. Technology changes, and so must common advice.

Anyway, what do you think? It certainly makes sense to me, as I was beginning to question how an external drive could possibly be faster/better than the internal drive myself. I'm just "shocked" (huge exaggeration haha) since it contrasts years of advice.

Do you think the same applies to using sample libraries? Better to read from the internal drive? Does it apply only to recording and not mixing where you are just reading and not writing?

What are your thoughts? Thanks
 
That definitely goes against anything I've read or encountered. sounds like that tech doesn't actually use the products.

Did they put 2 firewire ports on the interface? Then it's designed to be daisy chained.

You should definitely run your sessions off a decent external drive. I use a Lacie d2 quadra 1TB for my mbp
 
A SATA II port is faster than a firewire port, really nothing new. The reason it is faster to run multiple internal drives is that software doesn't bottleneck the performance of the HDD, considering software/OS and audio data will be coming through at the same time, though that is still faster than a firewire. eSATA is a different story as it is virtually as fast as SATA II.
 
Yes, exactly, but the question is if you can only have one internal drive (i.e. a laptop), is it really better to use a firewire drive for the audio?
 
conisdering the overhang that an OS/software will use vs. the read/write times of a firewire, yes, an internal is still better. External drives are designed for storage, not speed. Now eSATA is becoming common on most laptops of a decent price deals with using external as a main drive, but the price of those drives and the price of a laptop that could use one, would have another slot for a second internal drive, and an internal drive would be much cheaper than eSATA.
 
All interfaces I've seen use FW 400, though. Don't they?

The real question is whether I need to look into buying a Firewire drive I can format in HFS+ for audio (7200RPM, etc), or whether I should just record to the internal drive and get a larger, slower drive, or NAS for backups.
 
Well..

You can just buy another internal hard disk for your MBP and remove the DVD writer - just google it, there is lots of tuts available. You will then need to get an external recorder - or an enclosure for the mbp superdrive. Just google it and you'll find it.

Also...I've worked with around 50 tracks i/o over firewire 400 to a 5400rpm internal hard disk on one of those newest Acer notebooks and had no problems whatsoever. HOWEVER 1) As soon as I moved the mouse to open finder, i had hard disk dropout errors 2) Daisy chaining the Fireface 800 + external hard disk on a iMac = fail for me. VERY slow hard disk performance, disk drop outs and lots of headache.

I recorded up to 12 tracks at once on my mpb and never had errors, but you can feel it's squeezing every ounce of performance from the hard disk.

So, for pure performance, I'd suggest another internal hard disk, to run your projects from, and a USB drive just for backup.
 
Yes, I know you can replace the superdrive with another internal drive, but I really don't want to do that. I have no interest in modding my Mac (it would void the warranty AFAIK), and the superdrive is extremely useful for me. People who complain the superdrive is obsolete make no sense to me. I burn discs and listen to CD!

It's starting to sound like buying this laptop for recording was not as good of an investment as I thought, and desktops are MUCH more useful :erk:
(Unless recording 10 tracks to the internal drive winds up being fine)
 
I have a couple friends that do video editing and take classes and they all use external drives with their Macbook Pro's (it seems like in colleges in video editing a MBP is pretty much a requirement). The main reason is storage space, but it's also for data redundancy because most guys that have a MB Pro will use a Glyph or Lacie drive with a RAID array. It is true that using the firewire port for two devices is not recommended especially with an audio interface. You could probably do it though if you just keep the buffer set high which will reduce any chance for glitching. Another option is a fast USB2.0 drive. Most guys can record 16 tracks at 44.1KHz/16-bit with an external USB2.0 drive. USB uses some CPU though so be aware of that.

Firewire 400 has a data throughput capacity of 393 Mbit/s, and if you use an audio interface and were to record 10 mono tracks at 44.1KHz/24-bit then you would be using 79.3 Mbit/s. But other factors come into play such as latency settings and CPU overhead.
 
I've had no issues recording to the internal drive on my MBP, even tracked a full drum kit with it (for a friend's EP, which you can check out here.) I then back up to an external USB2 drive or two and wipe the files off my internal drive. Works fine for a mobile rig, anyway.
 
Nice.

I just got done recording a drumkit (and guitar scratches) to the internal drive on my MBP with buffer at 128 in Reaper. This was 10 tracks simultaneously. No clue if it could have gone lower latency-wise, but it doens't matter much as we weren't monitoring the drums, and we got through without a hitch. I even had two amp sims on