fitting vocals into a mix

[bryan_kilco]

I've been tweaking the past few days on a rough drum mix and today I decided to lay down some geetars and vocals just for a bit of reference of how the mix may eventually be. I can get the mix to sound nice up until I add vocals. Especially if it's layered vocals. I bumped the vocals up around 12khz which seemed to help bring out clarity, but I think the high frequencies from the OHs are causing an issue and I'm also bumping the same region on the kick sorta high to get it cut right (no sample). Im just not sure how to deal with multiple instruments in the same freq range. I'll get a clip up in a bit. I've already gotten a much cleaner mix this time around thanks to this forum and much reading reading reading!

No vox: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/6443251/Mix Test 1.mp3

Vox: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/6443251/Mix Test 2.mp3

any advice or pointers is very much welcome.

 

[guitarguru777]

Don't forget to compress the vocals, then after you compress them, compress them again, then after you compress them compress, them again .... did I mention compression?

Also don't be afraid to notch the other instruments ever so slightly to make the vocals fit. Add some tape saturation or possibly some distortion. Be sure to high pass the vox. I kill everything below 150, and everything above 8k then put a de-esser on top. Maybe some multi-band compression to tame low mids and certain vowel sounds.

Don't be afraid to notch the vox to fit the snare. DON'T OVER DO IT or it will be noticeable.

 

[bryan_kilco]

Don't forget to compress the vocals, then after you compress them, compress them again, then after you compress them compress, them again .... did I mention compression?

Also don't be afraid to notch the other instruments ever so slightly to make the vocals fit. Add some tape saturation or possibly some distortion. Be sure to high pass the vox. I kill everything below 150, and everything above 8k then put a de-esser on top. Maybe some multi-band compression to tame low minds and certain vowel sounds.

Don't be afraid to notch the vox to fit the snare. DON'T OVER DO IT or it will be noticeable.

Well, my one main question is: how do you compress something so much and have it be audiable? These mixes have some rough "mastering" going on as well.....and they seem soooo damn quiet compared to some of your guys' masters. Vox are already compressed pretty hard, then hit with GClip, Ferox, and a limiter. -.-

 

[guitarguru777]

Loudness Maximization after you compress

Also dont compress SO MUCH that it pulls the volume down that low. Compression is a science, and it takes a long time to get it just right.

 

[bryan_kilco]

loudness maximization huh? in reaper? is this a "technical term"?

So, what would you recommend setting each stage of compression? Thanks for your help by the way.

 

[bryan_kilco]

another thing that irks me....

seems that no matter how hard I set the comp on the vox, when he goes for a higher scream or gets louder, the compressor doesnt seem to hush it. Using ReaComp in reaper....

 

[ahjteam]

Well, my one main question is: how do you compress something so much and have it be audiable?

how about the most obvious one? turn everything else down.

 

[updog]

I kill everything below 150

Wow. I kill everything below like 450. Are we talking death metal vocals or clean?

Sounds good enough for me, not too narrow, at least with the vocalists I've mixed. But I'm probably over-doing it like I do with everything else

 

[ahjteam]

Wow. I kill everything below like 450. Are we talking death metal vocals or clean?

Sounds good enough for me, not too narrow, at least with the vocalists I've mixed. But I'm probably over-doing it like I do with everything else

Not really, my death metal vocal mixes frequency response usually look something like this:

and they sound like this: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1338211/angelkiller_ahj_v03_after.mp3

 

[Morgan C]

Try scooping some high mids in your guitars. 2-3khz.

 

[Ermz]

The vocals you posted are way too thin. You need to keep more lows and mids in there.

Normally I tell people to cut around the vocals to create space for them, but in your case I think it's mostly the vocal processing itself that is at fault. Maybe strip the chain and start again. Use 1176 and L1 compression heavily, if the highs/high mids are still out of whack like this give izotope trash a shot using the Tape Saturation algorithm. It tends to focus the mids a lot more. It might be what you're after.

You might have a touch too much going on with the guitars at 2-3khz as Morgan mentioned.

 

[guitarguru777]

Another thing I notice now that I am on my studio monitors is lack of low end on the entire mix. Shift guits, vox, & bass like 50hz or so. It will thicken the mix.

 

[bryan_kilco]

Another thing I notice now that I am on my studio monitors is lack of low end on the entire mix. Shift guits, vox, & bass like 50hz or so. It will thicken the mix.

There IS no bass in this. I didnt have a bass handy yesterday so just decided to lay down 2 sloppy guitars just so see how things would (kind of) fit.

I noticed that now that I started tracking at -18db, I'm having a harder time achieving the BIG mastered sound. Also, I dont have an expensive studio or any studio for that matter. Just a laptop, ProFire 2626, some decent mics, and some egg crate foam. So far I've definitely surpassed my last effort. It's just, once I start getting everything in the mix, certain elements get lost (Overheads, ride/bell just dont jump out anymore) and if I lower other stuff, it just starts to seem too quiet. I guess I'm still in the beginning stages of this stuff, but I'm learning..... Like, when you say "shift guits/bass/vox like 50hz", do you mean move the HP over?

 

[guitarguru777]

Do you have Studio Monitors, or are you mixing on Headphones?

As for the shifting, don't move anything I didn't realize you had no Bass guitar on it. Once you throw the bass down it should fill out the low end.

 

[bryan_kilco]

Do you have Studio Monitors, or are you mixing on Headphones?

As for the shifting, don't move anything I didn't realize you had no Bass guitar on it. Once you throw the bass down it should fill out the low end.

Unfortunately, no studio monitors. That will be my next investment. I picked up a pair of Shure headphones. I switch back and forth from my little system here at home (Altec Lansing), our PA system at the jam space, the headphones, my car, and anyone elses stereo I can get a cd into and I'll always put a reference track on the cd along with my mix to compare.