Forum Improvements

Anyway as I was saying..yes I think there are a couple of people here who actually dont know the meaning of the word friendly, and I couldnt imagine having or even wanting a decent philosophical conversation with them.

I think you need to be stuffed into an oven and burned for your inherent lack of contributions and your passive aggression. What do you have to offer here?

At the risk of being pedantic, let me explain: the smarter people in life want a place where they can get away from shit like the shining turd you just posted. If you want this to be a philosophy forum, you want smarter people... spare me the "we're all equal" shit and the idea that dumb people might just be nice enough to be brilliant philosophers. If you want smarter people, you need to keep idiots from generating crap that they don't want to read.

And yes, my experience running forums FUCKING DWARFS all of yours here, so you should listen :)
 
There are many people with a 'potential' for interesting and useful contribution here, that would presently be unable to because of the way their environment has shaped them. I agree that for a forum to maintain a base of 'interesting contributors' (smart people, maybe) there needs to be a reasonable signal to noise ratio. But to expect everyone that arrives here out of the blue to instantly be equipped, is limiting the scope / audience of the forum in ways that I wouldn't support. How are people to become 'interesting contributors' if they are not given a chance to fail from time to time?

I argue for a middle ground basically :)
 
There's no question that we can't bring down the hammer on every n00b with a dumb question, but we can set policies that discriminate against people with viewpoints that cannot be incorporated productively in an intellectual environment. People of Abrahamic faith backgrounds, for instance, should simply be shown the door. Their belief systems are based on an uncanny mixture of sophistry and outright untruths. Such perspectives have no place in intelligent discussion.
 
I think you need to be stuffed into an oven and burned for your inherent lack of contributions and your passive aggression. What do you have to offer here?

At the risk of being pedantic, let me explain: the smarter people in life want a place where they can get away from shit like the shining turd you just posted. If you want this to be a philosophy forum, you want smarter people... spare me the "we're all equal" shit and the idea that dumb people might just be nice enough to be brilliant philosophers. If you want smarter people, you need to keep idiots from generating crap that they don't want to read.

And yes, my experience running forums FUCKING DWARFS all of yours here, so you should listen :)

Theres so much I could say back to this, but I wont because I'm mature. I will say one thing though,you seem a real nasty person.
 
There's no question that we can't bring down the hammer on every n00b with a dumb question, but we can set policies that discriminate against people with viewpoints that cannot be incorporated productively in an intellectual environment. People of Abrahamic faith backgrounds, for instance, should simply be shown the door. Their belief systems are based on an uncanny mixture of sophistry and outright untruths. Such perspectives have no place in intelligent discussion.

Hahaha, agreed. But it isn't going to happen, even if the mods here all agreed.
 
I am against crushing n00bs, for honest learners are always welcome. I am however all for requiring them to state a coherent argument, and to cut out all this wishy-washy shit like "you can't just kill 9 of 10 people... sob... think of the humanity!"

Whatever. Any thinker who wants to talk philosophy is going to look at that and think, "Oh. Myspace."

You've got several groups...

1. The clueless moralists.
2. The philosophy students who have no idea how to apply what they've learned.
3. Surly groundlings (proud member) some of whom are violent realists
4. People reciting emo lyrics

These aren't going to come together unless you find a standard for argument and stick to it, deleting posts (and accounts, if you can't find the idiots and shoot them) as necessary.

Show no mercy!
 
if you think morality is 'wishy-washy shit' then you are by definition a psychopath. if you want to kill people with machinery, you're just the next step up from capitalists. did you ever look at a tree and see it for what it really is? not some unit to produce oxygen for YOU or cut down greenhouse gasses for US. i doubt it. try some emerson.
 
It's still horrible to want to kill 9 out of 10 people. how would you feel if it were your kid. you take away all the humanity in life. love and care and talking to people is better than killing them.
 
^^^Why would it be horrible if stupid people are a detriment to society? You are the poster child for "clueless moralist" info was going on about...

Infoterror, why is it that you only consider a person's intelligence in your perfect society? Why would a decent person who bothers nobody and has his own plot of land and enough brains and stuff to sustain himself be killed in your grand master plan? I'm sorta on board with this kill everybody that's destroying society, but I don't think intelligence is the only thing that one needs to advance it or even stop from destroying it...
 
The Moderation and Board Issues thread serves the purposes you mention. Sorry, I don't know why I didn't reply to this post earlier.

Here's something that's been bugging me. This is probably the least friendly forum I've seen. The general tone of many posts is antagonistic and condescending. I don't find this appealing at all, and I know from some people on other forums on UM that this place does not make a good impression on others. I think at least some minimal friendliness is good for any decent philosophical conversation. I would like to know if you guys agree with my observation and have any suggestions about what can be done about this.

If your remarks imply what I think they may imply I would like you to consider these words by Frank Furedi in his book "Where Have all the Intellectuals Gone?"

"British universities encourage academics to ban an 'adversarial' style of debate from the seminar rooms and provide a 'supportive environment' for students. A strong argument has been redefined as a form of mental intimidation. Such attitudes are even more in evidence on American campuses. 'Debate has gotten a very bad name in our culture', notes Jeff Nunokawa, a professor of English at Princeton University. 't's become synonymous with some of the most non-intellectual forms of bullying, rather than as an opportunity for deliberative democracy.'
Given the extent to which the authority of knowledge has been devalued, the negative connotations acquired by conflict of opinion and heated debate are entirely understandable. With so little at stake, what's the point of arguing? If ideas have such little consequence, insistence of one's point of view appears as pig-headedness and bad manners. Criticizing someone else's ideas is readily interpreted as ego-tripping or as an act of insensitivity, while the very act of questioning someone's view can appear as a personal insult. 'It's as though there's no distinction between the person and the argument, as though to criticize an argument would be injurious to the person', observes Amanda Anderson, an English professor at Johns Hopkins University."


We surely don't want that here do we?
 
I usually get heated up in a philosophical conversation on an issue I find important and will not hold back objections to whatever someone says, including what I might have said a couple minutes ago in the conversation. If we are not going to criticize the content of a person's comments and be wishy-washy about them, then we can't do much in the way of philosophy. Sometimes people don't like to be contradicted, but that should be challenged when one is engaged in philosophy. Hence, I am completely on board with you finding the observation in the quoted paragraph unacceptable.
As a moderator, I have criticized some people's posts on this board for two reasons. First, the antagonistic and all-knowing, condescending tone present in many of these. One can keep piling objections upon objections to someone's ideas, but that does not justify an antagonistic tone. Indeed, the presence of that tone makes it appear the conversation is being held in a kindergarten, where how loud someone says something may be more important than what one says. This hinders fruitful debate. We want to hear clearly articulated ideas, not sensationalist slogans, and we want to see what justification can be given for and against these ideas. It is hard to do that when some of the parties to the conversation act like spoiled children.
I have also noted the intellectually poor (and repetitive) content of some of the posts. In certain cases, I tried to say what I have understood from that post and given some ideas about how one might go about giving reasons for it. Sometimes I got no reply, in other cases I got something irrelevant to the issue I pointed out. All this gives the impression that some people are not really interested in having an actual debate where we (perhaps ruthlessly) ask for clarifications and replies to objections.
 
I don't really think that's what he was criticizing. If it's a good refutation, it should stay, no matter if the one refuted gets offended. But if the refutation basically amounts to "You're stupid!!!!111", then that's productive for no one.

It is possible to make a polemic but remain friendly, and in my opinion that should be the goal of any refutation, because in that way the person being refuted will be better able to see the actual argument, instead of just seeing "I think you're wrong".
 
I usually get heated up in a philosophical conversation on an issue I find important and will not hold back objections to whatever someone says, including what I might have said a couple minutes ago in the conversation. If we are not going to criticize the content of a person's comments and be wishy-washy about them, then we can't do much in the way of philosophy. Sometimes people don't like to be contradicted, but that should be challenged when one is engaged in philosophy. Hence, I am completely on board with you finding the observation in the quoted paragraph unacceptable.
As a moderator, I have criticized some people's posts on this board for two reasons. First, the antagonistic and all-knowing, condescending tone present in many of these. One can keep piling objections upon objections to someone's ideas, but that does not justify an antagonistic tone. Indeed, the presence of that tone makes it appear the conversation is being held in a kindergarten, where how loud someone says something may be more important than what one says. This hinders fruitful debate. We want to hear clearly articulated ideas, not sensationalist slogans, and we want to see what justification can be given for and against these ideas. It is hard to do that when some of the parties to the conversation act like spoiled children.
I have also noted the intellectually poor (and repetitive) content of some of the posts. In certain cases, I tried to say what I have understood from that post and given some ideas about how one might go about giving reasons for it. Sometimes I got no reply, in other cases I got something irrelevant to the issue I pointed out. All this gives the impression that some people are not really interested in having an actual debate where we (perhaps ruthlessly) ask for clarifications and replies to objections.

Sorry if I come off curt and condescending (my name is Curt, and yes, I am increibly condescending, hehe), but there's a simple solution to the problem you mention here: delete or edit posts you find antagonistic, rude, repetitive, etc. You have the moderator power and discretion to do so, and you have issued numerous warnings.
 
I am reassured by your answer Derbeder. I do think that if anyone offends in the particular way you are talking about that they should be given a chance, and warned. And I'm glad that you appreciate that too. I worry that I might ever have inadvertently been guilty of this. My posts are often forthright, but I don't think I have said anything this year that would be deserving of deletion. You don't mean anything I have said then?
 
It's still horrible to want to kill 9 out of 10 people. how would you feel if it were your kid. you take away all the humanity in life. love and care and talking to people is better than killing them.

When people talk about wishy washy moralism, responses like yours are what they have in mind. When you have an actual argument, rather than a mere appeal to pity, come back around.
 
It's still horrible to want to kill 9 out of 10 people. how would you feel if it were your kid. you take away all the humanity in life. love and care and talking to people is better than killing them.

Hippyism is fine and dandy for a while, until of course there are 1000 billion humans inhabiting the planet, all of which are too "moral" to kill the others and save humanity. Love and care can be many times more fatal than killing. Morality is what's psychotic.
 
Έρεβος;6179529 said:
Hippyism is fine and dandy for a while, until of course there are 1000 billion humans inhabiting the planet, all of which are too "moral" to kill the others and save humanity. Love and care can be many times more fatal than killing. Morality is what's psychotic.

I don't really see how you can maintain that morality is psychotic given other beliefs you seem to hold. You seem to hold certain evaluative beliefs which, I contend, basically amount to moral claims, e.g. the belief that humanity ought to be saved, or the belief that one course of action is better than another.
 
I don't really see how you can maintain that morality is psychotic given other beliefs you seem to hold. You seem to hold certain evaluative beliefs which, I contend, basically amount to moral claims, e.g. the belief that humanity ought to be saved, or the belief that one course of action is better than another.

I hold values, but no morals. Values are subjectively important - what is valuable to me. Morals make claim to objectivity. Also, what I value has nothing to do with belief. I don't believe humanity ought to be saved. I simply value humanity hence want it to be saved. I also do not believe any course of action better than another, but rather evaluate them according to the knowledge I possess. Any course of action I see as the best is simply the course of action my present knowledge & wisdom tells me is best. I do not make absolute claims, either. They could always be wrong, and shown such by attaining further knowledge. Beliefs are objective claims on the subjective; I have nothing of the like.