"Freedom"

infoterror

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Apr 17, 2005
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Freedom

If there's ever a word that has through repeated usage become cheap and meaningless, it's "freedom." Girlfriends want their freedom; it means the ability to make dumb decisions and not be accountable. Boyfriends want their freedom; it means the same thing, with a sense of excess. Drug addicts, homosexuals, Nazis, Jews, Christians, furries and internet mooners all want their freedoms, too. And that's on a personal level.

On the social level, we fight for "freedom," including the freedom to have cheap oil and a gallant little ally in Israel, even if it alienates the entire Muslim world. On an economic level, we want the "freedom" to earn obscene amounts of money and then pass it on to our shareholders, who will (if they're wise) invest it well and take it out of circulation as far as making things better is concerned; investments seize income and turn it into ownership, where it could be reapplied. On a religious and ethnic level we want "freedom" too, to live wherever we want and act as we desire.

You'd think that if it were that simple, freedom versus lack of freedom, we would have found an answer. Yet the chant goes on, We...want...freedom, and it becomes interpreted in different ways that will never reconcile. A pothead wants the freedom to toke up 24-7-365 if so desired, but parents of two-year-olds, even if they smoked dope back in college, want the freedom to raise their kids far from shadowy drug use. When we're tired of killing each other for "freedom," we arrange the sickest of compromises: out of sight, out of mind.

And if we drift away from the concept of freedom, we are generally taken to the opposite extreme, which is collectivism as a moral absolute, as in Communism or ancient Sparta. While the Spartans were clearly far ahead of the Communists, such a society leaves itself open to competition from easier pastures nearby. There has to be a middle ground that makes sense. Individual "freedom" is important. Also important is the freedom to not have the pursuit of "freedom" of others create a caustic and destructive society like the current one, where selfishness reigns dominant. These are, believe it or not, both freedoms: the freedom from a dominant order and the freedom to not be crushed under its disorganization are both fundamental.

Most of us are familiar with modern societies that strictly regulated individual freedom to the point of absurdity. This situation occurs when there is a lack of agreement as to the goals and values of a society, which means that different groups vie for power so that they can enforce their mould on others. The constant crisis of this model is that as soon as one group gains power, every other group feels oppressed, and the cycle of revolution goes on again and again. Whatever happened to the idea that if an individual is harming nothing, he or she should be able to do whatever is desired?

That idea runs into problems immediately because sins of omission can be as destructive as active counteraction. If I'm taking bong hits in my house and fail to notice the armed bandits taking turns raping my neigbhors, I'm still enjoying "freedom," but I'm not taking part in society. If in a society of bonghitters, I'm taking cocaine, or worshipping Gods that hate marijuana, I'm causing harm slowly and steadily. Harm can be defined as whatever goes against the collective goals of a society; if the values to define those goals cannot exist, harm is undefined, and almost all behavior becomes harm because none of it is geared toward order.

With this realization, we finally break into the truth about freedom: it can only be defined relative to the values of a society-unit, and for us to have "freedom," we must live in places where what we wish to do is not considered harmful. There is no society that can exist so that all behaviors are non-harmful, because the result is a total lack of unity. This is why both left and right, in the name of varying degrees of freedom, at their most extreme have found comfort in the idea of localization, or of small communities of relatively static populations defining their values through tradition.

"Freedom" is just a word until given such a context and possibility of being fulfilled. Right now, you have "freedom" -- the freedom to work long hours, pay lots of bills, and do anything that does not offend powerful special interest groups of competing intentions. In our desire for absolute freedom, we've caught ourselves in the crossfire. A more mature definition of freedom would free us from "freedom," and give us the basis to construct a new civilization of independent, autonomous but collaborating local communities.

January 27, 2006

http://www.anus.com/zine/articles/freedom/
 
"Freedom" is used as a catch phrase like "equality". It is meaningless unless it is explained: freedom to do what, or freedom from what? Equality with what and in what way? There is no such thing as just "freedom" or "equality".
The French revolution had as it's motto "Liberte, egalite et fraternite". And it is the far left who use these words as if they have meaning without qualification. They are words used to deceive simple minds.

In Russian the nearest word to freedom means "license". So this word could not be used as any kind of rallying cry. To the Russians, the talk in the west of freedom and liberty must seem somewhat ridiculous.

America makes a holy cow out of "liberty" and yet only last month a strike over health and safety on the New York subway was broken by huge punative fines. Workers in the US have virtually no rights. They can be fired at will, made homeless, starved and imprisoned because of big business.

As an impartial observer, and no fan of communism, I think if you live in America you could hardly be blamed for wanting a revolution. And sending the rich the same way as the Romanovs.
 
Norsemaiden said:
America makes a holy cow out of "liberty" and yet only last month a strike over health and safety on the New York subway was broken by huge punative fines. Workers in the US have virtually no rights. They can be fired at will, made homeless, starved and imprisoned because of big business.

Not sure if you live in the US, Norsemaiden, but this statement is not true. Workers have a lot of rights throughout the US. The best, most responsible companies (which do exist) find a way to make a profit while creating a workplace that is beneficial to the employees. The smartest business persons know that happy workers mean increased productivity. Of course, there are many people with less vision, and their are plenty of companies that try to find ways around labor laws (hiring illegal immigrants is a perfect example). There are others that simply scam their employees (Enron). But this is illegal, and enforcement does happen often.

The thing about most labor union strikes these days is that the issue usually revolves around disputes between the union and the employer about how much of a raise the union employees should receive over what period of time, or over how much or how little employees should contribute to their own health insurance costs. This is a far cry from the early years of labor organization when unions were fighting to protect people from real exploitation and dangerous workplace environments. Comparing the situation of workers now and then would show just how well off modern workers are in general (there are always some exceptions).
 
Glad to hear that things aren't as bad as they are painted here in Britain. We have more laws to protect workers here than in the US. At least, as you say, there are smaller firms who care about workers rights, so that's good.
The welfare system in the US is supposed to be really tough compared with in Europe as well. Also the health care system is a far cry from the national health service in Britain (which has greatly deteriorated). But I'm only going by what I've heard on the media countless times.
 
Norsemaiden said:
Glad to hear that things aren't as bad as they are painted here in Britain. We have more laws to protect workers here than in the US. At least, as you say, there are smaller firms who care about workers rights, so that's good.
The welfare system in the US is supposed to be really tough compared with in Europe as well. Also the health care system is a far cry from the national health service in Britain (which has greatly deteriorated). But I'm only going by what I've heard on the media countless times.

I think you're right about welfare being tougher in the US than Europe, but a lot of people seem to make a living off it anyway. One can get money from multiple levels of government, as local counties or cities, individual states, and the federal government all have different programs that give out taxpayers' money to people who don't make enough money to pay taxes. Poor people can also get health insurance from both the state and federal government. It's the middle class that often has to work the hardest, as they don't qualify for all the assistance programs and they have to pay their bills themselves. Not that I would want government money - asking for welfare is akin to saying that one is too weak and stupid to make a living on one's own. I'd rather earn my way. That's one of the basic and perhaps most overlooked concepts of freedom, to get back to the original topic. Depending on the government too much is a path to bondage.
 
VikingSF said:
Not sure if you live in the US, Norsemaiden, but this statement is not true. Workers have a lot of rights throughout the US. The best, most responsible companies (which do exist) find a way to make a profit while creating a workplace that is beneficial to the employees. The smartest business persons know that happy workers mean increased productivity. Of course, there are many people with less vision, and their are plenty of companies that try to find ways around labor laws (hiring illegal immigrants is a perfect example). There are others that simply scam their employees (Enron). But this is illegal, and enforcement does happen often.

The thing about most labor union strikes these days is that the issue usually revolves around disputes between the union and the employer about how much of a raise the union employees should receive over what period of time, or over how much or how little employees should contribute to their own health insurance costs. This is a far cry from the early years of labor organization when unions were fighting to protect people from real exploitation and dangerous workplace environments. Comparing the situation of workers now and then would show just how well off modern workers are in general (there are always some exceptions).

This is all wrong! Totally erroneous Viking. American companies can pretty much do what they want, and they always have.

In terms of injury on the job ( i was a law clerk for a personal injury lawyer), the American worker is screwed by our Workers Compensation system, that is underfunded by the companies that pay into it. A conservative estimate from my Torts class, found that American workers lost at least 90billion dollars in damages due to our Workers comp system. They receive annually 10 billion dollars, due to the very restrictive rewards, and the corruption of the system that denies so many valid cases of injury.

Surely you have noticed every American company jettisoning their pension plans, as well as many of their workers? Only 15 % of workers now have pension plans; the rest are left with 401k's, which are no gaurentee if the market goes down, and most people do not know how to properly manage them.

Workweek-wise. If one is in a professional, managerial, any non-hourly job, a American company can force you to work almost non-stop. There are no rules aganst it. If one is hourly, it takes quite a court fight, to actually get those hours you worked overtime and didnt get paid. The bush administration tried to revise these hourly standards, to essentially reclassify 10 million workers as non-hourly employees.

And then lets talk about downsizing. Most American workers with professional degrees are now going from job to job, due to this problem. Once you start making some money, they are going to get rid of you. I dont know where you live, but this is a very common practice these days. This problem has just started; give it another thirty years, and god knows how many white collar jobs will be lost.

As for unions, there are few of them left. Membership is at an all time low. Union jobs are disappearing because they do support a healthy wage and benefits; so much so that the companies with unions cannot compete with other companies that have far lower wages and benefits.

And we havent scratched the surface. Temporary and Consulting jobs with no benefits and time-based contracts are a huge part of the work-force that has been expanding every year.

I could go on, but the US is the most anti-worker, pro-business Western country in the world. Only in professions that are in great demand, does one have leverage.
 
speed said:
This is all wrong! Totally erroneous Viking. American companies can pretty much do what they want, and they always have.

In terms of injury on the job ( i was a law clerk for a personal injury lawyer), the American worker is screwed by our Workers Compensation system, that is underfunded by the companies that pay into it. A conservative estimate from my Torts class, found that American workers lost at least 90billion dollars in damages due to our Workers comp system. They receive annually 10 billion dollars, due to the very restrictive rewards, and the corruption of the system that denies so many valid cases of injury.

Surely you have noticed every American company jettisoning their pension plans, as well as many of their workers? Only 15 % of workers now have pension plans; the rest are left with 401k's, which are no gaurentee if the market goes down, and most people do not know how to properly manage them.

Workweek-wise. If one is in a professional, managerial, any non-hourly job, a American company can force you to work almost non-stop. There are no rules aganst it. If one is hourly, it takes quite a court fight, to actually get those hours you worked overtime and didnt get paid. The bush administration tried to revise these hourly standards, to essentially reclassify 10 million workers as non-hourly employees.

And then lets talk about downsizing. Most American workers with professional degrees are now going from job to job, due to this problem. Once you start making some money, they are going to get rid of you. I dont know where you live, but this is a very common practice these days. This problem has just started; give it another thirty years, and god knows how many white collar jobs will be lost.

As for unions, there are few of them left. Membership is at an all time low. Union jobs are disappearing because they do support a healthy wage and benefits; so much so that the companies with unions cannot compete with other companies that have far lower wages and benefits.

And we havent scratched the surface. Temporary and Consulting jobs with no benefits and time-based contracts are a huge part of the work-force that has been expanding every year.

I could go on, but the US is the most anti-worker, pro-business Western country in the world. Only in professions that are in great demand, does one have leverage.

Quite venemous, but I agree with your voiced lament. That truly is quite an awful situation to be in. With America such an undoubtable mess, I find it somewhat humourous that most of the country lives with such hubris and national pride that it will be force fed this bullshit and happily march on.
 
Final_Product said:
Quite venemous, but I agree with your voiced lament. That truly is quite an awful situation to be in. With America such an undoubtable mess, I find it somewhat humourous that most of the country lives with such hubris and national pride that it will be force fed this bullshit and happily march on.

Well i dont know what cave this guy lives in. Magic-Republican land in the sky I suppose. And when I see this nonsense, I get mad. Sure, if you are in a really hot field, an American company will pay you ridiculously well. And even then, you are looking at long hours, and very stressful work. I know a number of lawyers, and a few bankers on the Street, that regularly put in eighty hour weeks. Thus, why so many of them burn out. But other than that, the American worker is screwed, and it will only get worse not better.

What is most shocking, is the fact that these huge American companies can cut jobs, even when they are running a healthy profit, without any complaints from the Government who supports these businesses with favorable tax laws, an extremely favorable market structure for large corporations, and our military--which essentialy protects the free market American system around the world. A CEO just stated that cutting jobs is like picking fruit from the lowest branches. It takes no effort, and raises profits and thus stock.

We have the opposite problem as the Europeans. It is easy to cut American jobs and benefits, and induce overtime.

One thing that doesnt get publicized, that I mentioned, is the amount of temp and consultant work in America. At Procter and Gamble, a company that just made record profits Fri and has its huge global headquarters in Cinci, laid off thousands of workers five years ago. They replaced alot of those workers with temps, and consultants. So much so, that 40% of the huge corporate office is made up of temps or consultants with one year or less, no benefit contracts. Instead of making 50--100 grand a year with stock options and benefits, these temps are making 13-14 an hour.
 
I agree with this little essay very much.
I especially agree about the part about small, "tribal" societies:
On the one hand i think it is very important for the evolution of thoughts that people have the freedom to live according to their individual values. On the other hand if a large country grants this rights to its citizens this will also lead to the free growth of behaviour that will harm this society or country as a whole.
Really small societies might solve that problem because in a small society you might rather much agree with everybody else who is in it. And somebody who has totally new morals that fit in nowhere he could chose to be ejected and try to survive alone or build a new society, if he is (or in the latter case his ideas are) strong/good enough.
 
VikingSF said:
Workers have a lot of rights throughout the US. The best, most responsible companies (which do exist) find a way to make a profit while creating a workplace that is beneficial to the employees.

True, but this state can only exist for so long as they do not have competition which gains an advantage by being less benevolent. Look at Wal-Mart: that's the future of employment, for most Americans.

No idea what it's like in Britain or Russia, but it seems Russia has collapsed anyway and the British seem peevish of late. It's a worldwide disease, however, not limited to any one race or land.
 
speed said:
Well i dont know what cave this guy lives in. Magic-Republican land in the sky I suppose.

Well, let's see. I live in San Francisco, and at twenty years old, without a degree of any kind, I was able to find a job with a company that paid me a very high hourly wage, paid all of my monthly health and dental insurance costs, and gave me generous amounts of paid vacation time. Now, five years later, my hourly wage is even higher after a number of raises and promotions, so that I make almost 40K a year. On top of that, the company accomodates my college schedule, allowing me to shift my working hours around my class schedule, so that someday I can leave this company for better, more fulfilling work elsewhere.

Now, it is not every day one finds a good job, and there are plenty of screwed up individuals running screwed up companies that are looking to break or bend the law, but I personally am not willing to condemn the entire American system based on the misbehavior of individuals. I don't dispute the validity of your argument in dealing with many specific cases, but your pessimistic attitude makes it seem that American workers are being whipped by Egyptian slave drivers sixteen hours a day.

So take it easy, Speedy. Extremism leads to clouded judgement and debates with more venom than understanding.
 
infoterror said:
True, but this state can only exist for so long as they do not have competition which gains an advantage by being less benevolent. Look at Wal-Mart: that's the future of employment, for most Americans.

Good point. If the market leads to less friendly business models, than we are in trouble.
 
VikingSF said:
Well, let's see. I live in San Francisco, and at twenty years old, without a degree of any kind, I was able to find a job with a company that paid me a very high hourly wage, paid all of my monthly health and dental insurance costs, and gave me generous amounts of paid vacation time. Now, five years later, my hourly wage is even higher after a number of raises and promotions, so that I make almost 40K a year. On top of that, the company accomodates my college schedule, allowing me to shift my working hours around my class schedule, so that someday I can leave this company for better, more fulfilling work elsewhere.

Now, it is not every day one finds a good job, and there are plenty of screwed up individuals running screwed up companies that are looking to break or bend the law, but I personally am not willing to condemn the entire American system based on the misbehavior of individuals. I don't dispute the validity of your argument in dealing with many specific cases, but your pessimistic attitude makes it seem that American workers are being whipped by Egyptian slave drivers sixteen hours a day.

So take it easy, Speedy. Extremism leads to clouded judgement and debates with more venom than understanding.

I think my post is full of facts and details, whereas yours have inferred a great deal from your own personal experience and nothing else. So how about posting something of content before you go making such claims.

And, since you live in SF, how is 40,000 a decent salary?

And yes, your original post really shocked me as an amazing piece of ignorance, and pissed me off; hence, I was a bit passionate.
 
VikingSF said:
I don't dispute the validity of your argument in dealing with many specific cases, but your pessimistic attitude makes it seem that American workers are being whipped by Egyptian slave drivers sixteen hours a day.

^ Read.

And I'm doing just fine on my salary, thanks for asking.
 
VikingSF said:
I think you're right about welfare being tougher in the US than Europe, but a lot of people seem to make a living off it anyway. One can get money from multiple levels of government, as local counties or cities, individual states, and the federal government all have different programs that give out taxpayers' money to people who don't make enough money to pay taxes. Poor people can also get health insurance from both the state and federal government. It's the middle class that often has to work the hardest, as they don't qualify for all the assistance programs and they have to pay their bills themselves. Not that I would want government money - asking for welfare is akin to saying that one is too weak and stupid to make a living on one's own. I'd rather earn my way. That's one of the basic and perhaps most overlooked concepts of freedom, to get back to the original topic. Depending on the government too much is a path to bondage.

No you read your own post. Health insurance for poor people? Assistance from local governments? You obviously know nothing about our welfare system or healthcare.

But you are right, I have been less than philosophical in my argument. Excuse my sudden passion, it doesnt happen often.
 
speed said:
Health insurance for poor people? Assistance from local governments? You obviously know nothing about our welfare system or healthcare.

In California:

MediCal is a health insurance program for lower income persons. See the below website.

http://www.chcf.org/topics/medi-cal/index.cfm

The food stamp program helps low income persons buy food. See the below website.

http://www.dss.cahwnet.gov/foodstamps/

In San Francisco:

Homeless persons can apply for General Assistance, which either cuts that person a check as much as $400 per month, I believe, or pays for a bed and other services in lieu of the money. See the below website.

http://www.sfgov.org/site/dhs_page.asp?id=12877


I'm guessing that things are different where you live, and I'm willing to hear your observations. Just try to make them cordial. I've got nothing against you and I hope we can have a civilized debate.
 
Something tells me the actual working of the above schemes will (like all government funded initiatives!) fall short of their mission statement!
 
VikingSF said:
In California:

MediCal is a health insurance program for lower income persons. See the below website.

http://www.chcf.org/topics/medi-cal/index.cfm

The food stamp program helps low income persons buy food. See the below website.

http://www.dss.cahwnet.gov/foodstamps/

In San Francisco:

Homeless persons can apply for General Assistance, which either cuts that person a check as much as $400 per month, I believe, or pays for a bed and other services in lieu of the money. See the below website.

http://www.sfgov.org/site/dhs_page.asp?id=12877


I'm guessing that things are different where you live, and I'm willing to hear your observations. Just try to make them cordial. I've got nothing against you and I hope we can have a civilized debate.

I see. Well, these programs are only available in San Francisco as far as I know. You know SF is the most liberal city in America. I dont know of any other area in the United States that provides these programs. Most have a few underfunded, and overcrowded health clinics for the poor. but nothing more.

You see, the reason I am so angry, is because I dont live in San Francisco like you--although Ive never been there, and I hear its very expensive and very gay, so...