Gays can't marry in Cali or whatever.

[Omni]

Homeschooling is terrible, because it keeps the child isolated from the world and thus unable to properly communicate with people and reconcile differences in beliefs, lifestyles, etc. They end up sheltered and ignorant about how the world works. Also, the average parent simply cannot do as good a job at educating their kid as a trained professional can.

I'd say homeschooling probably should not be allowed as an alternative to going to school. It's not true education.

I was homeschooled, and I've never experienced any of those problems. Both of my parents are fairly religious, too. I think you're generalizing.

 

[The Ozzman]

itt vihris discusses why intolerance is bad while being intolerant of homeschooling

 

[AchrisK]

Ack, what you need to do is get in the frame of mind that a vote for gay marriage does not have to mean you support gay marriage. A vote in favor of gay marriage is a vote in support of equal rights. Surely you can feel good about voting in favor of something that will grant your fellow citizens the rights you freely enjoy. You seem morally strong enough to be able to set aside you feelings towards marriage and see the big picture.Morally opposing gay marriage and supporting equal rights do not need to be mutually exclusive. You would not be giving up on your own beliefs, you would simply be allowing others to enjoy what they beleive they have the right to. I think you have it in you to do the right thing.

Good post!

EDIT: But do you know what I fear? I fear the liberals convincing everyone that my views are inherently wrong and damaging to our society, so that my freedom of choice will be limited, while their liberal agendas are promoted and embraced to the point where dissent is punished. I know that's not something that can happen swiftly, but I don't think it is that far-fetched of a concept. Especially based on how many liberals tend to strike me as very intolerant of other ideologies.

 

[zabu of nΩd]

I didn't say anyone was, but when I asked for what you all thought I should do, you basically said I should change my thinking to be like yours. You guys are great liberals! I didn't say you were thought police, I said you seem to be advocating conformance to your way of thinking. Obviously you cannot enforce that. But you are tending towards that type of thinking.

Read my above post. If you're still not convinced of our argument, then keep thinking about it, or do some more research, or something. I don't think anyone here is asking you to follow the majority opinion here so much as they are pointing out that you have no good reason to believe what you do other than stubbornness.

I have not once asked any of you to change your views, and I don't feel I should. You only tolerate free speech you agree with. You condemn those who oppose you. You think everyone who doesn't agree with you is a complete idiot.

People tend to condemn things which are immoral. If someone came here advocating murder and genocide, they would be condemned for their views. That's not to say it's always appropriate for minority views to be harshly criticised, but if the views are particularly alarming, people have good reason to show alarm.

I disagree that I suck at logic. I actually think I am pretty good at it. But I also don't forget that people come from different ideological places. You guys tend to think that other ideological places are invalid. That is very narrow minded.

That's very convenient for you to say, considering that you've given absolutely no good reason for why gay marriage should be defined as between a man and a woman. Also, this isn't about what "ideological place" you come from, but the fact that you want to impose your ideology on other people who do not share it.

 

[Dak]

People tend to condemn things which are immoral.

So who gets to decide what determines "immorality"? People like AcK and myself generally pull our definitions of morality from the Bible. Others do not. You cannot call it stupid purely because you disagree.

Edit: Address your illinformed and intolerant statements on homeschooling

 

[cannibal corpse]

Because married couples see significant tax and insurance breaks.

I see. Learn something every day.

 

[Vossyrus]

Wow, I find it incredibly sad that there is even a need to debate gay marriages. There's honestly no reason why they shouldn't be allowed to marry.

For those against same-sex marriages- I don't understand how they can care so much about something that has no affect on their life at all. I hope their children all turn out to be homosexual.

 

[zabu of nΩd]

I was homeschooled, and I've never experienced any of those problems. Both of my parents are fairly religious, too. I think you're generalizing.

Good for you, but I don't think you can deny that the reason parents homeschool their kids is to isolate them from people with differing beliefs and lifestyles, which is pretty morally sketchy and actually defeats much of the purpose of education.

 

[AchrisK]

Read my above post. If you're still not convinced of our argument, then keep thinking about it, or do some more research, or something. I don't think anyone here is asking you to follow the majority opinion here so much as they are pointing out that you have no good reason to believe what you do other than stubbornness.

People tend to condemn things which are immoral. If someone came here advocating murder and genocide, they would be condemned for their views. That's not to say it's always appropriate for minority views to be harshly criticised, but if the views are particularly alarming, people have good reason to show alarm.

That's very convenient for you to say, considering that you've given absolutely no good reason for why gay marriage should be defined as between a man and a woman. Also, this isn't about what "ideological place" you come from, but the fact that you want to impose your ideology on other people who do not share it.

Dude, read Evil and Thoth's posts, and stop trying to control my mind.

Plus, I am good at logic.

 

[zabu of nΩd]

So who gets to decide what determines "immorality"? People like AcK and myself generally pull our definitions of morality from the Bible. Others do not. You cannot call it stupid purely because you disagree.

I'm not criticising your morality because I disagree with it. I'm criticising it because it involves harming people for no good reason, then there's something wrong with it. Opposing gay marriage is definitely harmful to some people, and neither you nor Ack have provided anything close to a good argument for it.

Edit: Address your illinformed and intolerant statements on homeschooling

I did, I think?

For those against same-sex marriages- I don't understand how they can care so much about something that has no affect on their life at all. I hope their children all turn out to be homosexual.

 

[zabu of nΩd]

Dude, read Evil and Thoth's posts, and stop trying to control my mind.

Plus, I am good at logic.

Dude, stop copping out of the argument and falsely accusing me of things without actually addressing my points.

 

[Dak]

Good for you, but I don't think you can deny that the reason parents homeschool their kids is to isolate them from people with differing beliefs and lifestyles, which is pretty morally sketchy and actually defeats much of the purpose of education.

You obviously have no statistics to back this up and are arguing out of biased ignorance. Not to say that some parents don't do it for that reason, but it's not the first reason.

And since statistics also show that homeschooled students outperform students in public/private schools (isn't academic achievement the goal of an education?) obviously the "parent vs professional" arguement doesn't work.

I'm not criticising your morality because I disagree with it. I'm criticising it because it involves harming people for no good reason, then there's something wrong with it. Opposing gay marriage is definitely harmful to some people, and neither you nor Ack have provided anything close to a good argument for it.

I didn't say I would have voted to oppose did I?

 

[Omni]

Good for you, but I don't think you can deny that the reason parents homeschool their kids is to isolate them from people with differing beliefs and lifestyles, which is pretty morally sketchy and actually defeats much of the purpose of education.

That isn't why I was homeschooled, so I'm pretty sure that I can deny that. Like I already said, you're generalizing.

 

[zabu of nΩd]

EDIT: But do you know what I fear? I fear the liberals convincing everyone that my views are inherently wrong and damaging to our society, so that my freedom of choice will be limited, while their liberal agendas are promoted and embraced to the point where dissent is punished. I know that's not something that can happen swiftly, but I don't think it is that far-fetched of a concept. Especially based on how many liberals tend to strike me as very intolerant of other ideologies.

I don't see how that fear is any more justified than a fear that conservatives would promote their agendas to the point of punishing dissent. You're just cherry-picking who to fear.

 

[zabu of nΩd]

You obviously have no statistics to back this up and are arguing out of biased ignorance. Not to say that some parents don't do it for that reason, but it's not the first reason.

And since statistics also show that homeschooled students outperform students in public/private schools (isn't academic achievement the goal of an education?) obviously the "parent vs professional" arguement doesn't work.

Fair enough, though I would like to see some evidence that homeschooled kids outperform other kids.

Also, I think my point still stands that homeschooling denies kids experience in communication and reconciling different beliefs and lifestyles. And this is a very important goal for education.

That isn't why I was homeschooled, so I'm pretty sure that I can deny that. Like I already said, you're generalizing.

Okay. Why did your parents homeschool you?

 

[Dak]

Fair enough, though I would like to see some evidence that homeschooled kids outperform other kids.

Outperformance Statistics

US Census on Homeschooling(Reasons)

 

[Omni]

My parents homeschooled me because the educational standards of public schooling where I grew up were very poor and did not challenge me.

They have never tried to hide things from me. They were always more than willing to let me find out about things such as homosexuality, racism and other religions aside from their own, because they realize that I'm intelligent enough to make my own life decisions. I've never had problems socializing or acceptings others due to differences.

Dakryn is also right that homeschooled children tend to academically outperform children who go to public school.

 

[Evil?]

Good post!

EDIT: But do you know what I fear? I fear the liberals convincing everyone that my views are inherently wrong and damaging to our society, so that my freedom of choice will be limited, while their liberal agendas are promoted and embraced to the point where dissent is punished. I know that's not something that can happen swiftly, but I don't think it is that far-fetched of a concept. Especially based on how many liberals tend to strike me as very intolerant of other ideologies.

Hmmm, well, the way I see it, proving someones beliefs to be "inherently wrong" is tricky business becasue entrenched beliefs are very hard to shake and it can be impossible for some people to see those beliefs as wrong whether they are or not,but what SHOULD be seen as inherently wrong is the denial of rights to fellow men and woman who in the eyes of the LAW have done nothing wrong. In this debate I think the act of marriage is second the the central issue at hand, which is equal rights for all regardless of sexual orientation.

 

[SentinelSlain]

Wow,

For those against same-sex marriages- I don't understand how they can care so much about something that has no affect on their life at all. .

That's not a very good point. It has as much affect on the straight people who are strongly for gay marriage.

 

[AchrisK]

Dude, stop copping out of the argument and falsely accusing me of things without actually addressing my points.

I have addressed your points. You just can't see beyond your own ideas.

I don't see how that fear is any more justified than a fear that conservatives would promote their agendas to the point of punishing dissent. You're just cherry-picking who to fear.

I feel it is more justified because of people like you who cannot fathom another ideology or perspective if it causes someone to disagree with you. It seems to me that you would prefer a country where your views are accepted as truth and opposing views like mine are silenced and eliminated.

Why don't you go read that article I posted called "What makes people vote republican".