Georgia/Russia

Genius Gone Insane

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Aug 19, 2003
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Unfortunately our American media seems to think that it's the cold war again, so our news right now on this matter is totally fucked. Can one of you foreigners post and let me really know what's going on there? There are conflicting reports so I don't know what to think. I'm 90% sure this is more BushCo/Oil industry doing but still there are American Georgians here protesting against Russia, so maybe Russia is the bad guy here. I don't know. How valid is Russia's claim that there's a genocide going on here?

BTW you foreigners should listen to our radio broadcasts here, they are a joke, they don't even say why Russia went into Georgia, as if Putin is the terrorist there. Americans now are like Germans in the 30's, we don't question anything, we just kind of go with the flow and turn a blind eye.
 
Unfortunately our American media seems to think that it's the cold war again, so our news right now on this matter is totally fucked. Can one of you foreigners post and let me really know what's going on there? There are conflicting reports so I don't know what to think. I'm 90% sure this is more BushCo/Oil industry doing but still there are American Georgians here protesting against Russia, so maybe Russia is the bad guy here. I don't know. How valid is Russia's claim that there's a genocide going on here?

BTW you foreigners should listen to our radio broadcasts here, they are a joke, they don't even say why Russia went into Georgia, as if Putin is the terrorist there. Americans now are like Germans in the 30's, we don't question anything, we just kind of go with the flow and turn a blind eye.

Bolded for truth/sadness. Wow this is sad. I was hoping I was the only one that noticed this and I was just being paranoid. :cry:
 
Dont worry dude.... america is not getting involved..... This is not our problem, Georgia is not a offical part of NATO, So we have no reason to get involved.
Russia is just getting Revenge(Overkill) for something that happend many years ago.
 
Dont worry dude.... america is not getting involved..... This is not our problem, Georgia is not a offical part of NATO, So we have no reason to get involved.
Russia is just getting Revenge(Overkill) for something that happend many years ago.

I wouldnt be to sure of that.
Israeli media says US sending more arms to Georgia

Russia Today
August 11, 2008

The United States is sending fresh supplies of weapons to Georgia from its base in the Jordanian port of Aqabah. That’s according to the Israeli newspaper – Maariv.

The paper says the US began flying weapons from the transport hub on Saturday.

According to Maariv, the US is hiring Russian-made freight planes belonging to UTI Worldwide Inc. to transport arms and ammunition to Georgia. The paper says the Pentagon is redirecting supplies to Tbilisi that were earmarked for Iraq.

The Aqabah terminal is used by the US to supply troops in Iraq. The American military relies on the hub mainly because it’s safer to use Aqabah than Iraq’s own ports in the Persian Gulf.

Georgia stocks a wide range of weapons from many sources. This is a strategic move in case Russia were to block off the channels through which it gets its military supplies.
 
It just doesn't stop. The never ending war on everything and anything we can get involved in. It saddens me. We are in the middle of war for profit and looking to get into more. Those poor people dying by the million for our so called "Democracy".
 
Dont worry dude.... america is not getting involved.....
the USA is already involved, they're always. russia (which is ruled by gazprom by the way) wants to get access to oil fields in baku, east of georgia. usa is raising funds for georgias army as they did back in the war in afghanistan in the end 80ies. there's a pipeline going from baku to a harbor in turkey. from there oil is shipped to the eu and usa.
I don't have any proves for that, but they're some hints. read between the lines and feel free to question my statement
 
Wait, wait, can someone fill me in here? I can't watch the vids cuz I'm currently on a computer in a public library in the small Adirondack town where my family is currently vacationing, but the impression I've gotten from the NY Times articles (a pretty liberal paper, I thought) was that Russia was just barging into Georgia and trying to take the place over, and Georgia hadn't done a fucking thing to instigate it (they even offerred a cease-fire and Russia ignored it and charged right on). What's this about Georgian genocide? Cuz the vibe I got is that Russia is trying to rally fierce nationalism to build themselves up (through imperialism) from the disasterpiece its become after the fall of the Iron Curtain
 
There's no innocent parties here. Georgia launched the first attack, to retake the breakaway provinces. Russia claims the burned towns/villages killing thousands. This has yet to be confirmed by any credible source. Russia launched a counter offensive, on two fronts, effectively cutting Georgia in half. Russia's top general said they would go further into Georgian territory, and that they had no tanks in the city of Gorgi. Reporters saw tanks rolling out of that city first hand. Russia said "the guilty party had been punished enough" and said it would stop it's attacks. But they continued to push forward. Russia said the U.S. was interfering instead of helping. I say, hello kettle, this is the pot....your black. Interfering? As opposed to the Russian "peace keepers" that have been stationed there for years, although legally it was Georgian territory. And then, let's not even get into the whole Russian/Georgia oil pipeline mess.

It's a messy thing, and there is no innocent party here. If I have any of my facts wrong, please correct me...because I can only go by what the various forms of media tell me.
 
There's no innocent parties here. Georgia launched the first attack, to retake the breakaway provinces. Russia claims the burned towns/villages killing thousands. This has yet to be confirmed by any credible source.

I know from a personal credible source that the Georgia military re-takeover was not 100% legit, meaning there was definitely foul play going on there.
 
I'm not doubting you at all. I was only quoting from what I've been reading. I'd like better and more accurate information than I currently have.
 
Damn boys does not look good we are starting to send troops and "humanitarian aid" Hate to be Mr. Doom and Gloom but looks like this could have the potential to be the start of WWIII.

"Welcome to the new Cold War and new Great Game, what a new administration will inherit next year, and the very worrisome thought that it will handle things no better than the current one no matter who’s elected or which party controls Congress." Stephen Lendman
Global Research
August 14, 2008

Check this out http://www.russiatoday.com/news/news/28892
 
As everyone noticed in my country, whole thing does smell of Serbia and Kosovo a bit: a sovereign country, and a piece of territory that wants independence. Trick is that this time around it`s the country that is American ally, not the separatists. That brings us to a ridiculous situation in which George W. tells Russia that they`re breaking international law by invading a sovereign country. Hilarious!

BTW, I doubt that Georgia, which is a pretty small country, would dare break the previous agreement with Russia by attacking the separatists, if they haven`t been encouraged to do so by America. I`m not sure that any of them actually expected the Russian reaction to be as it was (cause if they did, than there`s probably something much worse that lyes ahead).
Naturally, none of the sides is "the good guys" in this.
Also, war profiteering in one way or another is in human nature, so I wouldn`t be surprised if Russia is using American methods in obtaining more energy sources.
Ordinary people, as usual, are just collateral damage.

Well, I`m sure you all know the "Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely". For some time now America was the only "Evil Empire" around, now Russia has recovered and seams to be very eager to join the fun. I hate to be a pessimist, but I believe we may be fucked :headbang:
 
You may be right about WWIII but I ask you to consider this: what if this is simply a ploy to rekindle the Cold War? Think about how much power the US government would have if Russia became a the same enemy they were from the 50s to the 80s.

PS Condi Rice was just in Georgia a few weeks ago, no doubt told them to start fighting.
 
Found this, and it seems to makes sense:

Georgia war is a neocon election ploy
Robert Scheer, Creators Syndicate, Inc.

Wednesday, August 13, 2008

Is it possible that this time the October surprise was tried in August, and that the garbage issue of brave little Georgia struggling for its survival from the grasp of the Russian bear was stoked to influence the U.S. presidential election?

Before you dismiss that possibility, consider the role of one Randy Scheunemann, for four years a paid lobbyist for the Georgian government, ending his official lobbying connection only in March, months after he became Republican presidential candidate Sen. John McCain's senior foreign policy adviser.

Previously, Scheunemann was best known as one of the neoconservatives who engineered the war in Iraq when he was a director of the Project for a New American Century. It was Scheunemann who, after working on the McCain 2000 presidential campaign, headed the Committee for the Liberation of Iraq, which championed the U.S. Iraq invasion.

There are telltale signs that he played a similar role in the recent Georgia flare-up. How else to explain the folly of his close friend and former employer, Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili, in ordering an invasion of the breakaway region of South Ossetia, which clearly was expected to produce a Russian counter-reaction. It is inconceivable that Saakashvili would have triggered this dangerous escalation without some assurance from influential Americans he trusted, like Scheunemann, that the United States would have his back. Scheunemann long guided McCain in these matters, even before he was officially running foreign policy for McCain's presidential campaign.

In 2005, while registered as a paid lobbyist for Georgia, Scheunemann worked with McCain to draft a congressional resolution pushing for Georgia's membership in NATO. A year later, while still on the Georgian payroll, Scheunemann accompanied McCain on a trip to that country, where they met with Saakashvili and supported his bellicose views toward Russia's Vladimir Putin.

Scheunemann is at the center of the neoconservative cabal that has come to dominate the Republican candidate's foreign policy stance in a replay of the run-up to the war against Iraq. These folks are always looking for a foreign enemy on which to base a new Cold War, and with the collapse of Saddam Hussein's regime, it was Putin's Russia that came increasingly to fit the bill.

Yes, it sounds diabolical, but that may be the most accurate way to assess the designs of the McCain campaign in matters of war and peace. There is every indication that the candidate's demonization of Putin is an even grander plan than the previous use of Hussein to fuel American militarism with the fearsome enemy that it desperately needs.

McCain gets to look tough with a new Cold War to fight while Democratic presidential candidate Sen. Barack Obama, scrambling to make sense of a more measured foreign policy posture, will seem weak in comparison. Meanwhile, the dire consequences of the Bush legacy McCain has inherited, from the disaster of Iraq to the economic meltdown, conveniently will be ignored. But it will provide the military-industrial complex, which has helped bankroll the neoconservatives, with an excuse for ramping up a military budget that is already bigger than that of the rest of the world combined.

What is at work here is a neoconservative, self-fulfilling prophecy in which Russia is turned into an enemy that ramps up its largely reduced military, and Putin is cast as the new Joseph Stalin bogeyman, evoking images of the old Soviet Union. McCain has condemned a "revanchist Russia" that should once again be contained. Although Putin has been the enormously popular elected leader of post-Communist Russia, it is assumed that imperialism is always lurking, not only in his DNA but in that of the Russian people.

How convenient to forget that Stalin was a Georgian, and indeed if Russian troops had occupied the threatened Georgian town of Gori, they would have found a museum still honoring their local boy, who made good by seizing control of the Russian revolution. Indeed five Russian bombs were allegedly dropped on Gori's Stalin Square on Tuesday.

It should also be mentioned that the post-Communist Georgians have imperial designs on South Ossetia and Abkhazia. What a stark contradiction that the United States, which championed Kosovo's independence from Serbia, now is ignoring Georgia's invasion of its ethnically rebellious provinces.

For McCain to so fervently embrace Scheunemann's neoconservative line of demonizing Russia in the interest of appearing tough during an election is a reminder that a senator can be old and yet wildly irresponsible.
 
The USA needs to stay out of foreign affairs. I am so sick of this shit. Post-Communist Russia should be left to sort out its own issues in its own ways, and I have to wonder if some of this would even be happening without American influence.
 
The USA needs to stay out of foreign affairs. I am so sick of this shit. Post-Communist Russia should be left to sort out its own issues in its own ways, and I have to wonder if some of this would even be happening without American influence.

+1
Not to mention the amounts of sheer hypocrisy coming from ALL parties involved.
 
Shit dude wouldnt it be nice if there where no underlying issues and it was just little guy being picked on by big guy so we go in and kick the big guys ass.