Georgia/Russia

I'm of the mind that Obama will most likely be the next US president, and while I do like some of his ideas (particularly about the Internet), I don't consider myself a democrat or a supporter in the direct sense. Given that Bush doesn't have much time left in office, who's in charge next is very relevant to this issue.

I'm highly skeptical of Obama's recent statement, in that he calls for a cease fire, and talks largely with the rhetoric of portraying Georgia as a victim (taking sides.) The problem with calling for a cease fire is (A) that is getting involved, by telling people what not to do and (B) when one side violates the cease fire (and they always do), that can be used as a weapon against them, through NATO, the UN, etc. to escalate the conflict and get more nations involved in things that are simply not their business.

I suppose I'll never fit in with the American political spectrum, as I am a non-interventionist, yet I believe in free trade and free cultural exchange. Neither the Democrats nor the Republicans accommodate this, which means my vote is taken away from me by the party system.

So, whether Obama or McCain get elected, it hardly matters, because the USA will still get involved in a foreign conflict. When will we ever learn?
 
Genius Gone Insane said:
Oh it will make all the difference whether or not Mccain is running. You should be concerned more than anyone, Kazrog, living in Socal where all the oil tycoons are just drooling to drill more.
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Perhaps I should have qualified my wording a bit more clearly, because I was talking very specifically about Russia/Georgia and nothing else. With respect to this conflict, it seems like Obama wants peace but is going about it in a dangerous way, and that McCain is simply not to be trusted and is very much himself a part of the problem.

So yes, it makes a difference, and Obama will have my vote, primarily because he's not McCain, but also because his environmental stance is strong. I was just saying that with respect to this conflict, both candidates want to involve the USA in some capacity, which I strongly disagree with. At the end of the day, I'm going to settle for the candidate who wants less involvement, who is clearly Obama, but I don't trust him or anyone else.
 
Sorry going OT, but USA people don´t think it´s weird to have only two political parties that can actually compete? I mean, when there were only two major political parties on my country, that kept cycling through elections, it was almost the same as a dictature.
 
We do, but people often don't think it's necessary or even beneficial, so they keep sucking off the two vaguely different schools of idiocy and hoping it'll do something useful.

Jeff
 
whitedamp said:
Sorry going OT, but USA people don´t think it´s weird to have only two political parties that can actually compete? I mean, when there were only two major political parties on my country, that kept cycling through elections, it was almost the same as a dictature.
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Agreed 100%. :kickass:

I hate political parties, all they do is amass power among an insider's group of powermongers. The "third parties" in America have no voice and no chance of ever succeeding, no matter how many votes they get. To be perfectly honest I don't see that changing without a revolution, the old guard wants their power stronghold. There's fundamentally nothing different about Republicans and Democrats, it's all a charade to distract people from the real aims of the powerful insiders, who are the direct beneficiaries of various mega-corporate interests.

Nothing is new in this respect, it's been this way since the 1950s in America, possibly even longer. To quote the best TV series ever, The Prisoner, "We're mostly democratic..."
 
Mancha I believe you are right on. I think its about time America wakes to the fact that for many years there has been no such thing as a 2 party democratic system, its merely an illusion, Both parties say one thing but once elected you will realize they all sport the same face and their ultimate goal is to further the NWO. I know its easy to pass that off as a tinfoil hat conspiracy but the further you dig and pay attention the more you realize that its not to far off the mark.
 
it's been this way since the 1950s in America, possibly even longer
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we've been getting the shaft for a lot longer than 50 years...the government began bending over for big business not long after the civil war, and things have just gotten progressively worse since, as companies make more money and techonology makes it easier for them to continue their stranglehold.
 
colonel kurtz said:
the government began bending over for big business not long after the civil war
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They went a lot farther than that because of the Civil War, without a doubt. We went from the USA as a union of states to the USA as a monolithic monstrosity with little 'state' lines drawn in here and there.

Jeff
 
Quoting from an article on Yahoo news today:

"...Saakashvili said the West sent a disastrous signal to Russia by denying Georgia a door to NATO membership.

Saakashvili, whose leadership is founded on a close alliance with Washington that has always aggravated Moscow, said that Russia had interpreted NATO's snub of Georgia as capitulation. He spoke hours after President Bush accused Russia of "bullying and intimidation" against Georgia. Bush, delivering a formal statement outside the Oval Office at the White House, said the people there chose freedom and "we will not cast them aside."

Saakashvili did not appear enthusiastic about the cease-fire pact, but Rice defended it as a good way to return all forces to their prewar positions. She said that the signed pact obligates Russia to withdraw forces from Georgia immediately.

"Georgia has been attacked," and the world must help ensure that the country's independence and borders remain intact, she said following nearly five hours of meetings with Saakashvili. Their joint news conference was delayed by more than three hours, a sign that the talks were difficult.

"This is not a done deal," Saakashvili said. "We need to do our utmost to deter such behavior in the future."....."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080815/ap_on_re_eu/us_russia_georgia


Was just thinking last night. I may be way off here, but:

Georgia wants badly NATO membership. They were rejected, but Bush vowed to eventually get them into NATO. What better way to convince everyone that Georgia needs NATO protection than being "invaded" by Russia? So, maybe the initial Georgian attack was urged by the Bush administration, knowing that Russia would not let this go unpunished. Thereby making Georgia the "victim" that needs NATO protection, forcing other NATO members to see the error of their ways and approve them for membership.

Just a thought.

Also, last night on CNN I believe, they were speaking with a former commanding General, who is now one of their so called "expert consultants". He was saying that Russia acted so quickly that they MUST have been planning this for some time. Well...DUH. Do you not honestly think all militaries have contingency plans for many different scenarios?

Sorry, my wife gets tired of me ranting about this at home, so I have to do it somewhere. :)
 
Sorry...just a mini rant to blow off a little steam:

Sooo...now Russia is accusing the U.S. of provoking Georgia into it's "aggression". Gee...you think? Of course Russia has just been waiting for the perfect opportunity to try reasserting itself as the other major player in world afairs. The bear has only been asleep for a while, and is now waking from hibernation. (Just a thought) **and for those Russian forum members, any comments I make about Russia...or pretty much any country...are aimed at the government...not the people. People, no matter what country they live in, are at the mercy of the political whims and aspirations of their power hungry governments.

I'm sure Russia has their eye on other former states. Ukraine...are you next? Tiny Moldova has even been threatened. Which strikes a chord with me, because of my close connections with Romania.

As I said before...there's no innocent parties here...except the average people caught in the middle. There is so much hypocrisy on ALL sides, it's unbelievable.

Okay..sorry...end mini rant. Any other ideas or theories out there? Or maybe I'm just paranoid and full of B.S.?
 
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