Getting "punch" in mixes

[Matt Smith]

Hi Andy--
I'm kinda stuck in a rut with my mixing. The instruments/frequencies/balances/etc. sound OK for the most part (though of course I still have a LOT to learn), but I can't quite get away from that "demo" sound. The best way I know to describe it is when I listen to one of your mixes, even when I turn it almost all the way down and can barely hear it, it still seems to jump out of the speakers. My mixes don't. They just seem a little flat and lifeless or something...

I know there's no magic bullet, and the only real answer is probably a lot of practice and experience, but if you have any little tips that may help, I'm all ears. My guess would be that most of that elusive punch lies in the drum sounds, but who knows. Maybe I should start trying some processing to the 2-bus, like mixing through an SSL or Alan Smart-type compressor (the only thing I've ever really done to the 2-BUS is add a little EQ). I don't know. I just know that my own skills are the largest factor aside from the musical performance itself...the gear can always come later.

Trying to get my mixes to sound like a record instead of a good demo. I know mastering has a lot to do with it as well...the mastering engineer worked wonders on our first record, which I mixed. But still, I'm not to the point where mastering will give it the punch and sheen I'm not giving it in mixes.

Obviously, everyone is welcome to throw in your ideas and suggestions. Thanks, friends!

 

[Impy]

Nicely compressed drums do add alot to the thickness of the sound and is a must if you want the "proffessional" sound. Also i find that a hint of extra reverb on things that sound too lifeless does the job quite oftenly, i'm not saying you should drown everything in reverb like in the 80's tho
Try experimenting with delays and such too, sometimes it just doesn't work but sometimes it sounds great.
I don't know if you're familiar with submixing drums thru a compressor and adding to the original, that usually works for me to give it better punch.

 

[DIOBOLIC5150]

Nicely compressed drums do add alot to the thickness of the sound and is a must if you want the "proffessional" sound. Also i find that a hint of extra reverb on things that sound too lifeless does the job quite oftenly, i'm not saying you should drown everything in reverb like in the 80's tho
Try experimenting with delays and such too, sometimes it just doesn't work but sometimes it sounds great.
I don't know if you're familiar with submixing drums thru a compressor and adding to the original, that usually works for me to give it better punch.

I would have to agree... Compression (not too much) makes a difference for the drums. For the guitar I use to record with, I have the rear pickup as close to the strings as I can get it without hitting it when I palm mute. That makes for a deeper, punchier sound. (at least with my config).

Certain parts of some of my songs are compressed heaver than others (like if you do a stall, and then bust back in heavy). The initial impact of those parts seems to hit like a ton of bricks compared to the rest of the track (intended).

I found that reverb most of the time makes a demo sound even more cheesy. Reverb, to me, should sort of trail the tone rather than ingulf it.

Panning dynamically helps me also. Throw in some ambient guitar tracks over the hollow parts to fill in the void.

I'm no Andy but that's what has worked for me in the past. (still working at it however!)

 

[Hopkins-WitchfinderGeneral]

Kick drums are really important for punch in metal too, give em a little boost up the higher end of the EQ for some bonus slap attack.

That adds more impact.

 

[SickBoy]

Nicely compressed drums do add alot to the thickness of the sound and is a must if you want the "proffessional" sound.

Does that apply to MIDI drums, e.g. a kit that plays from Battery sampler?

 

[Hopkins-WitchfinderGeneral]

Those are samples of real drums... and yes they do.

 

[Impy]

I found that reverb most of the time makes a demo sound even more cheesy. Reverb, to me, should sort of trail the tone rather than ingulf it.

I said not to drown it it in reverb tho
I'm talking about adding just a little bit, barely audible, you can't tell that it's reverb but you can tell that something's changed to the better (most of the time)

 

[SickBoy]

Those are samples of real drums... and yes they do.

The reason I asked this is because I figured if there's not much dynamics in playing (since it's programmed drums) what would the benefit of comping be...
Could you please suggest some comp settings for snare, kick or toms?
I'm not that experienced with compressors...
Thanks.

 

[Hopkins-WitchfinderGeneral]

I don't think I ever do it quite the same way twice.

I output the drums to three wavs kicks/cymbals/snare-toms, then do each individually.

The only thing you really need to do is use a fast attack setting on the kick so it doesn't fuck it up. I usually apply the effect listening to the individual drum track on its own... to make sure it doesn't sound too weird alone. Then i switch the full mix so i can hear it with everything else. Works for me anyways.

 

[Impy]

It all depends on what sound you want on the kick, if you want a fast punchy kick try using an attack time that lets the attack of the sound go uncompressed and only compresses the sustain of the kick. This will make the kick short and punchy, i can't give you an exact time since it's different depending on the kick you use.

 

[SickBoy]

thanks, guys!

 

[Hopkins-WitchfinderGeneral]

It all depends on what sound you want on the kick, if you want a fast punchy kick try using an attack time that lets the attack of the sound go uncompressed and only compresses the sustain of the kick. This will make the kick short and punchy, i can't give you an exact time since it's different depending on the kick you use.

This is what I meant, but explained a lot better. :Spin: