give me fuel, gimme fire give me the white noise that i desire!!

kev

kev

Im guybrush threepwood
Jun 16, 2004
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Hey chaps, time to revisit the clayman thread- wooot! Having a few problems with phasing on the fredman technique - just wondering if you could verse me in solving it. Do i record a bunch of 5150 hissing as the "white noise" and move the mics until i hear totally ZIP through my headphones?

danke schon

Kev
 
kev said:
Hey chaps, time to revisit the clayman thread- wooot! Having a few problems with phasing on the fredman technique - just wondering if you could verse me in solving it. Do i record a bunch of 5150 hissing as the "white noise" and move the mics until i hear totally ZIP through my headphones?

danke schon

Kev
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Thats the way I have always done it. But you might not hear zip. BTW I looked at the Clayman thread and was stunned to see that many people thought this was some new way of recording. Its as old as amps. I hope people are not thinking their sound is dependent on this style of dual miking because its been used on heavy metal and progressive rock for ages.
 
Phase said:
Thats the way I have always done it. But you might not hear zip. BTW I looked at the Clayman thread and was stunned to see that many people thought this was some new way of recording. Its as old as amps. I hope people are not thinking their sound is dependent on this style of dual miking because its been used on heavy metal and progressive rock for ages.
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cheers phase! Ah, i just used it as a means of variation for the guitar tracks :) Its hardly genius eh :p
 
kev said:
cheers phase! Ah, i just used it as a means of variation for the guitar tracks :) Its hardly genius eh :p
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I know..some guys were like...yaay..world hunger has ended. But honestly, this place has some of the smartest people of any music forum I have been on. Its very rare to hear so many people put up so many good sounds and advice.
About the mics. You wont get total cancelation most likely..in fact some of the phasing is part of the sound. Many people go at a 90 degree angle also--one to the cone--- one side. Petrucci does that. There is also some plugins that can help after if your recording. I believe Voxengo has a free phase plugin in that will let you go all the way around --instead of just flipping the phase.
 
90 degree angle seems pretty extreme... I know he went far off, but 90 degrees would be one mic on the cap and the other on the bloody wall. I've had quite a bit of luck just recording two really tight takes and playing around with offsetting the time of one of them.

Seeing as how the point of this technique is more or less to get more fullness and less fizz, though, would it make sense just to play a chord or plug in a cheap Casio and see where you get the right sound balance? White noise can be all sorts of different frequencies...

Jeff
 
Yeah..thats what I first though years ago. In fact, we always hung mic cable right over the amp when I first played live. if you think about it..the sound is not coming directly out and even if it was ..your pointed to where its coming out. Think of puting a mic up to your mouth sideways..it still captures what you sing.

When you set them up.. 2 mics captures at the same point in space. As always the side mic is brought up under the straight mic. The idea is the side mic is very much a secondary picture of the sound and many times works better than a 45 mixed in because its not as similiar to the original straight mic sound and has less phasing because of this
 
Fuck! I thought that the speaker one was supposed to hear was the speaker with the LOUDEST and clearest white noise. I thought that was the garauntee that that speaker would sound the awesomest miced.

So we are supposed to look for the speaker with little to no white noise?
 
Nitronium Blood said:
Fuck! I thought that the speaker one was supposed to hear was the speaker with the LOUDEST and clearest white noise. I thought that was the garauntee that that speaker would sound the awesomest miced.

So we are supposed to look for the speaker with little to no white noise?
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No, Kev is talking about micing up a speaker with two mics and trying to get them in phase with each other, and if they're in phase, ideally when you flip the phase, you should hear no white noise.

You are correct in thinking you should listen for the most white noise when mic'ing up, but as far as I am aware, this is not for finding the best speaker, but the best position for the mic.
 
Kev, try this:

1. Match the levels (on/off axis channels)
2. Unplug the cable from your guitar. You should get loads of noise.
3. Monitor both channels through your DAW or mixer (make sure they are both panned center)
4. Flip the phase on off axis channel
5. Put your headphones on and move the off axis mic until you find the spot where most of the noise gets canceled away

After you have done all this, flip the phase back and you are ready to record. IMO this is the easiest way to do it.
 
Daunt said:
Kev, try this:

1. Match the levels (on/off axis channels)
1. Unplug the cable from your guitar. You should get loads of noise.
2. Monitor both channels through your DAW or mixer (make sure they are both panned center)
4. Flip the phase on off axis channel
5. Put your headphones on and move the off axis mic until you find the spot where most of the noise gets canceled away

After you have done all this, flip the phase back and you are ready to record. IMO this is the easiest way to do it.
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thanks dude! That is thee info i was looking for! Will try tonite! Brill. :kickass:
 
Ick.... guys, is there actually a way in nuendo to monitor with one channels phase reversed? I have no idea- other wise its gonna be a nightmare, recording, moving mics , recording etc?

I know you can reverse phase on a track AFTER its recorded, but how on earth would you monitor like this!!

Kev
 
BTW....another tip is to place the mic where you get the more pleasant noise

Even if your using amp hiss(which is better for this tip))--you will hear certain degrees of crumbing hiss, harsh hiss etc. There is a certain type of hiss that is very balanced and smooth---when you hit that spot, in many cases, your in a great position for your speaker. Last tip is dont be affraid to move the track in time a few miliseconds to fix phasing also. This is extremely common with songs that have mainly single note rhythms.
 
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