Guitar Center, NAMM Targeted In Pricing Lawsuit
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The spark
Klaatu.. Barada.. Nikto..
jet_dry
Member
Small town music stores are the worst. They all gouge you because they know they can, and everyone has that "if it's not Fender or Gibson it's garbage" mentality. I have to save my big purchases for when I go to Toronto/Ottawa, which isn't much better.
I read the whole lawsuit complaint(it's long), and from what it sounds like, Guitar Center and NAMM were CONTROLLING what the manufacture would set the MAP at... Usually 10% higher than what the manufacturer wanted.Anyone ever heard of Minimum Advertised Pricing (MAP)? These prices are set BY THE MANUFACTURERS, and per agreements with the dealers, can not be violated. Almost all products at Guitar Center, Musician's Friend, Sweetwater, Sam Ash etc are MAP prices.
You wanna sue someone, sue the manufacturers
There are about 15 different things they did that was illegal, the MAP scandal being only one of them.
egan.
daylightdies.com
Interesting. My complaint was never about price but customer service and the condition of their instruments.
wishtheend
clip the apex
MAP pricing is set by the manufacturer, and Guitar Center has no control over what the manufacturer sets. In fact, GC can loose their right to sell a brand if they are found violating MAP pricing. It's the manufacturers who set MAP - and it's their way of controlling what their product is sold at.
As for how NAMM can control this, I just lol. Before manufacturers go out to NAMM, they have already internally deciding pricing (list, cost & map) for items they debut at the expo.
egan.
daylightdies.com
Except that guitar center /musicians friend have the buying power to literally put some manufacturers out of business if they stopped carrying them, which puts GC in a position to dictate things to manufacturers. I'm not saying this did happen, but I am saying it is very possible. I'm assuming you still work there which is why you are being so defensive about Wofleman paraphrasing the lawsuit.
We'll just have to see how it all plays out.
wishtheend
clip the apex
No, don't work there any more but I worked in a dept that worked directly with the manufacturers so I see it from a different side than most guys.
Basically, MAP pricing was put into effect to protect all dealers from being out done by one another. If MAP didn't exist, you would see larger companies with higher profit margins able to get away with selling products closer to their cost, which causes the smaller companies with not as much head room to suffer.
MAP prices basically gives everyone equal playing field in terms of price, which is why companies like Sam Ash were offering things like free warranties with their orders as way to attract buiness.
But to all the guys who think 30% margins are bad, check out some of the Fender Custom Shop stuff. It's all sold at list. I think a good part of set pricing is for manufacturers to control the value of their products. If they don't set a limit, the value just comes down to which company is willing to loose the most money on selling it.
Basically, MAP pricing was put into effect to protect all dealers from being out done by one another. If MAP didn't exist, you would see larger companies with higher profit margins able to get away with selling products closer to their cost, which causes the smaller companies with not as much head room to suffer.
MAP prices basically gives everyone equal playing field in terms of price, which is why companies like Sam Ash were offering things like free warranties with their orders as way to attract buiness.
But to all the guys who think 30% margins are bad, check out some of the Fender Custom Shop stuff. It's all sold at list. I think a good part of set pricing is for manufacturers to control the value of their products. If they don't set a limit, the value just comes down to which company is willing to loose the most money on selling it.
Lowberg
Member
House of Guitars, Rochester, Fucking NY FOR THE WIN
I'm so lucky to be graced by this godly beast of a store in my town.
Puts all others to shame
I'm so lucky to be graced by this godly beast of a store in my town.
Puts all others to shame
J the TyranT
Thats just how it is...
Get a working/production account and get to know a manager or two. No more probs at GC, trust me
SentencedToBurn
Dubbs
tru dat. knowing someone who works at GC is always a bonus. get that shit cheaper then ANYWHERE else.
Z3R0
Member
+1
And not everyone is bad, but i will completely agree, there are some absolutely retarded people i work with... I hear stories from customers about a co-worker, and i just tell them to come to me next time and i'll take care of em. And i do. Problem solved.
not all guitar center employees are douches. This is true. I figure it comes with the territory. There are people at every job that suck , that hate their job and take it out on others.
funny story.
I went to guitar center to buy Steve Slates drums. I didnt figure they would have it but I tried anyways since musicians friend has it. The guy says " Steven Slate, I never heard of that brand of drums, we have pearl and tama" I said "no its a program" he says " we have ez drummer but i prefer triggers" . Obviously he had no clue what triggers are or anything. I just said "oh thats kewl, ill order it online".
They told me at the store that I am banned from buying any major items from the store due to returning 3 items. An Overdrive, a combo amp and a podxt. When I returned the podxt they made a huge deal about it, the manager came over and made this big deal, He said he was going to have to charge me a restocking fee since the plastic was open. I had to point out that the restocking fee is not for that and the item is not a software program, the item was one day old and i was far within the return guidelines. So he says with a smart ass tone, you cant get cash back. I said I don't want cash, I didn't ask for cash. I want to get the money back on my card. He says"that will be 7 to 10 business days" I said "nah you took it off of my credit card the same day, it will take about 2 or 3 business days so lets make it happen" he says "well since this is your 3rd return this year, you cant make anymore major purchases at this store" I said "that's fine, I'll order online and wont get a hassle returning anything" I know this to not be true from another employee though. on a better note, the district manager or something (some suit and tie guy) was in the store since and I told him what happened and he gave me 10 packs of free strings. hahahaah score.
funny story.
I went to guitar center to buy Steve Slates drums. I didnt figure they would have it but I tried anyways since musicians friend has it. The guy says " Steven Slate, I never heard of that brand of drums, we have pearl and tama" I said "no its a program" he says " we have ez drummer but i prefer triggers" . Obviously he had no clue what triggers are or anything. I just said "oh thats kewl, ill order it online".
They told me at the store that I am banned from buying any major items from the store due to returning 3 items. An Overdrive, a combo amp and a podxt. When I returned the podxt they made a huge deal about it, the manager came over and made this big deal, He said he was going to have to charge me a restocking fee since the plastic was open. I had to point out that the restocking fee is not for that and the item is not a software program, the item was one day old and i was far within the return guidelines. So he says with a smart ass tone, you cant get cash back. I said I don't want cash, I didn't ask for cash. I want to get the money back on my card. He says"that will be 7 to 10 business days" I said "nah you took it off of my credit card the same day, it will take about 2 or 3 business days so lets make it happen" he says "well since this is your 3rd return this year, you cant make anymore major purchases at this store" I said "that's fine, I'll order online and wont get a hassle returning anything" I know this to not be true from another employee though. on a better note, the district manager or something (some suit and tie guy) was in the store since and I told him what happened and he gave me 10 packs of free strings. hahahaah score.
I think the fact that most areas of the country are saturated with Guitar Centers that they get a bad rap, when in fact these same scenarios can happen at any music store that has an ounce of cocky attitude working within thier ranks.
Example: I bought my Triaxis/2:90 from a store the next city over (about 75mi away) because they were a Mesa dealer. When it showed up in thier store, I drove back over to get em...as I did when I ordered em. I asked "Hey, since I went through you guys and I had to drive here, any chance you can hook me up with a Mesa shirt, a cable, a pack of strings or something?". The dude says "I can't do that because we aren't making any money off this sale." The point wasn't that me throwing down almost $3k on 2 items in thier store meant that they should be able to afford to give me some free shit, it's that they should treat me right so I bring them my business more often rather than going somewhere else.
Furthermore, when I had problems with my rig and I contacted them, they told me to call Mesa directly. Last I checked, places want you to usually return to the place of purchase and go through them. This store doesn't seem to want to deal with service, just sales (which services should be considered all the same). Pisses me off when I have to go there.
Example: I bought my Triaxis/2:90 from a store the next city over (about 75mi away) because they were a Mesa dealer. When it showed up in thier store, I drove back over to get em...as I did when I ordered em. I asked "Hey, since I went through you guys and I had to drive here, any chance you can hook me up with a Mesa shirt, a cable, a pack of strings or something?". The dude says "I can't do that because we aren't making any money off this sale." The point wasn't that me throwing down almost $3k on 2 items in thier store meant that they should be able to afford to give me some free shit, it's that they should treat me right so I bring them my business more often rather than going somewhere else.
Furthermore, when I had problems with my rig and I contacted them, they told me to call Mesa directly. Last I checked, places want you to usually return to the place of purchase and go through them. This store doesn't seem to want to deal with service, just sales (which services should be considered all the same). Pisses me off when I have to go there.
jrt12
Member
unfortunately its always the case that once you get that big, things just go downhill. most of my interactions at GC with their sales associates have been mediocre and below. however, i wonder how they will compare to the Best Buy music centers theyre starting to pop up around the country. i think competition is always a good thing, as it helps keep the big boys in check a bit, and on a good day the customer will win somtimes. but i have no idea what bad sales and service at GC in competition with the bad sales and service at BBY will reap. can something good come out of this new competitor? fingers crossed. at least one of the BBY's here in LA has demo rooms for you to try shit out. havent been there in awhile though, so i'm not sure what their selection is like.
TravisW
Member
Another thing to remember with MAP is that it basically means that you can only advertise an item at a given price. You can sell it for a loss if you want, although that's generally a poor business plan. Most of the time when GC or MF have "Call for Price", it's below MAP.
i know egan touched on this earlier, but you don't think that massive retailers have some power over the manufacturer's regarding their prices? you have to realize that the majority of gear sold is nowadays is going to be sold through a handful of retailers, and if any one of them drop you, you're fucking toast.
i can cite a specific example where this happened outside of musical products...about a decade ago, one of the raw materials that rubbermaid used in their plastic jumped in price considerably. as a result, they stated that they were going to have to raise their prices. wal-mart refused to accept their price increase, and told them that if they were going to raise their cost, that they would drop their products in their stores. rubbermaid couldn't produce their product for the price wal-mart wanted, so wal-mart kicked them to the curb and started selling only sterilite brand shit.
fast forward to 2 years later, and the rubbermaid plant was being gutted, with all of the machinery being sold off to china
i know the price fixing accusations being discussed are w,orking in the opposite direction, but the same general principles apply - which is that in today's market, the concentration of retail outlets has given the seller almost total power over the manufacturer.
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