Guitar intonation problem

[FarBeyondMetal]

I have a Washburn x-50PROFE with a fixed bridge that I am having trouble intonating. The problem is I have my 5th string's saddle set as short as i can, and the intonation is still flat! I hit the harmonic, in tune, hit the 12th fret, flat. I managed to get the rest of the guitar intonated perfectly but I can't adjust the fifth string as far as I need it to go ¯\(°_o)/¯. Any suggestions ?

 

[Wolfeman]

What tuning are you in, and what gauge strings are you using?

 

[FarBeyondMetal]

10-52 in D standard. I set up the neck tension before I checked the intonation so that shouldn't be a problem. Maybe I need thicker high strings ?

 

[jval]

try raising the action a little on that string. or try thicker strings..

 

[FarBeyondMetal]

Thanks jval, I raised the action a little bit and solved the problem I had thought but there is still an even wierder one remaining. I hit the open string and its in tune, same with the harmonic, and the twelfth fret. I hit the fifth fret and its 10 cents flat. I am losing my mind. One thing I forgot to mention is it has the buzz feiten tuning system I dunno if thats playing games with me or not. :Smug:

 

[Zack Uidl]

Sounds to me like you are not sure how to properly setup a guitar (sorry if you actually do). Why not just take it to a pro? That is what I have to do since I am completely an idiot when it comes to this stuff

 

[FarBeyondMetal]

Yeah man you are completely right, no offense taken. It's just that I learned how to do a basic set up, and practiced on my two other guitars before trying it on my baby. The other guitars turned out fine but I think I am going to have to go to a tech for this one. I just really want to be able to do this stuff my self. Oh wellz

 

[Notuern]

You should never have to change your strings height in order to get proper intonation.

Check the relief of the neck.
Relief causes some slight displacement along the neck, so the straighter you can get it, the better.
But its better to have some relief then some backbow, backbow = Buzz city.

Another thing you can do is to shorten the nut.
Just take a very fine file and file the front of the nut down, so you increase the length between your nut and bridge.
Like this:

File it like the red line, if thats not enough, file it some more.
Remember to round of the edges with some really, REALLY smooth sandpaper afterwards, so you dont get edges that dig in to the strings.

 

[FarBeyondMetal]

Thanks for the help man. I hesitate on sanding the nut because the guitar has the buzz feiten tuning system, and supposedly they do something special to the the nut. I just double checked the neck tension, and it is as straight as i can get it. There is a little bit of relief because it buzzes if there isn't but to most people they would probably think it is totally straight it is that close. Also note, that there is something really funny going on with this fifth string. The open note and the 12th fret are properly intonated, but when i hit the fifth fret its way off, like 10-12 cents. Only way of getting around this is tuning my sixth string 10 cents flat. but if i move up higher than the 10th fret or so things start sounding out of tune. I guess I just gotta drop some cash on a set up

 

[FarBeyondMetal]

Holy shit! That looks awesome, but I am trying to do this myself in the first place because I am broke. Also, after reading, I found out that there is a special way to tune a buzz feiten guitar. I've had this guitar for 3 years and never knew that I am such a moron for that. I tuned it the right way though and i don't notice a difference and stilll no fucking dice on that fifth string.

 

[Notuern]

Also note, that there is something really funny going on with this fifth string. The open note and the 12th fret are properly intonated, but when i hit the fifth fret its way off, like 10-12 cents. Only way of getting around this is tuning my sixth string 10 cents flat. but if i move up higher than the 10th fret or so things start sounding out of tune. I guess I just gotta drop some cash on a set up

Well, you do realize that you need a buzzfeiten tuning chart to be able to intonate your guitar?
I never got my hands on one of those, but ive heard that you are supposed to intonate like the 7th fret clean, instead of the 12th.

Other then that, the problems you are mentioning are related to that the nut is badly cut, or the frets are either worn out, or simply needs to be re-leveled / re-fretted.

If you're REALLY wanting perfect intonation, send your guitar to this place:

I'd like to do this to 2 of my lesser quality guitars (a shitty classical and a Stagg LP copy with high-ass frets) and may do it in the future, although it's probably a bit cheaper to just let your local guitar tech see what they can do for you first.

If you send one guitar of to PLEK, you will do so with all your others as well!
I had a Boogie Street Customs guitar(Company who built Dime's Washburns.), and it had been PLEK'ed.. damn it felt great to play!
It practically played on its own!

 

[Metaltastic]

If you're REALLY wanting perfect intonation, send your guitar to this place:

http://www.frettek.com/faqs.html

If you send one guitar of to PLEK, you will do so with all your others as well!
I had a Boogie Street Customs guitar(Company who built Dime's Washburns.), and it had been PLEK'ed.. damn it felt great to play!
It practically played on its own!

Dammit - suddenly very very tempted

 

[Full_Tilt]

I have a Washburn x-50PROFE with a fixed bridge that I am having trouble intonating. The problem is I have my 5th string's saddle set as short as i can, and the intonation is still flat! I hit the harmonic, in tune, hit the 12th fret, flat. I managed to get the rest of the guitar intonated perfectly but I can't adjust the fifth string as far as I need it to go ¯(°_o)/¯. Any suggestions ?

before you start modifying the nut (though it may be required in the long run) look at the saddle ,if its the kind that is slanted on one side and the slanted side is facing towards the fret board then try removing it and turning it around .
Ive done this many times .
TBH I normally find this problem on the thickest plain string .

 

[Notuern]

Dammit - suddenly very very tempted

If you can afford it, go for it!
You can get your strings as low as 0.8mm(2/64") without any buzzing!

I think the Boogie Street i had was at 3/64", and it was hard as hell to play on it at first, because you just had to gently touch the string to fret it, but damn it felt good when you got used to it!

Oh man.. im getting a boner just thinking about it!

 

[Full_Tilt]

You should never have to change your strings height in order to get proper intonation.

Check the relief of the neck.
Relief causes some slight displacement along the neck, so the straighter you can get it, the better.
But its better to have some relief then some backbow, backbow = Buzz city.

Another thing you can do is to shorten the nut.
Just take a very fine file and file the front of the nut down, so you increase the length between your nut and bridge.
Like this:

File it like the red line, if thats not enough, file it some more.
Remember to round of the edges with some really, REALLY smooth sandpaper afterwards, so you dont get edges that dig in to the strings.

Sorry to question this technique but might this method interfere with the fret partitions intonation? Intonation should only be adjusted from the bridge . other wise fret 12 will be the only fret intonated within the scale length.

 

[Notuern]

Sorry to question this technique but might this method interfere with the fret partitions intonation? Intonation should only be adjusted from the bridge . other wise fret 12 will be the only fret intonated within the scale length.

No, it wont.. why would it matter in which end you adjust the strings length?
What it may do is mess with the string height adjustment made when they cut the string slots in the nut(because the slots are slightly angled.).. but even then theres not THAT much of a difference.

In fact, shelfing the nut is a pretty common method of fixing the intonation on guitars.

But as this guitar has Buzz Feiten, its not a very good idea.

 

[Full_Tilt]

Well from nut to fret 1 for a start

 

[Full_Tilt]

Hell I guess things are less exaggerated down at the nut anyway so maybe your right sorry.