Guitar tones existential questions... (EVH 5150 III content)

Heabow

Heabow

More cowbell!
Aug 24, 2011
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France
Hi guys

As many, guitar tones are my worst nightmare. Each time I try to get something at least decent at the source, I always have a pure shitty tone sounding to me. Then I try again with different settings, different mic positions cab, etc. (using Torpedo now) and EQing during hours (Ermz book as a guide) and I finally get something dark or harsh and muddy or thin. Shit. I must add that I take common settings used by everyone (I mean I own a 6505 and there are tons of settings here + tons of info about cabs, mic positions, etc.)

I always comparing several good raws with mines and it's always like night and day. The good ones have a good amount of bass but are tight, they are warmth but not muddy, seem to have a cut somewhere in the middle and mine always have a tons of middle... And I have to admit that I cannot find the keys frequencies by ears. I don't even know how it's possible to get good raws without EQing!! :lol: (yes I know... experience...)

Today I'm testing my EVH 5150III 50w with Ola's DIs. I'm using Torpedo Engl model with 2 x SM57 > VCC > MPX > HPF@60Hz / LPF@11kHz > T-racks limiter on master buss.

Channel two
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/36870048/EVH_CH2.mp3

Channel three
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/36870048/EVH_CH3.mp3

Both (two on the left)
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/36870048/EVH_CH2+3.mp3

What do you guys think? Am I in the right direction or not at all? It sounds quite good to me but nothing comparable to his Randall raws. And honestly, I don't even know what could I do EQ wise if I had to mix these! My ears and my brain are fucked up actually :)
 
I had a hard time getting good 5150 tones too. Whatever Amp setting or mic position i tried it always sounded not that good. And finally i identified the problematic source. It was the cab+Room. Marshall 1960 with v30 and Mesa Traditional didn't do it for me. Instantly i hook up a mates Mesa OS i got what i always struggled to get.
Fat but tight bass and an overall balanced tone regardless of amp setting and mic position. It only sounded different but always good. The only thing i don't know yet is if the room played a bigger role than i thought because i couldn't check out my cabs at his place.
And with IRs and that stuff it's the same. You need some fucking awesome IRs to get a good tone and with all i tried i got muddy or thin sounds. Either they lack definition or they are thin.
All your 3 samples sounds nearly the same..muffled. No gritty sparkly highs or however it could be described. They definetly need more in the higher freq range.
A user over here made some IRs that i liked from hearing his samples but i forgot who it was. Jake and Monster Pack or something like that get to my mind..maybe you know who i mean. But they are probably for use with a preamp...
 
Doesn't sound too bad to my ears, a little OT, but which DI's are these? I'd like to try my Kemper on a 5150III profile to see what I can do.
 
Thanks mates for listening.

@Red Phoenix: I actually tried a shit load of IRs (Recabinet, Torpedo and a good bunch of IRs from here). Although these are without a doubt a crucial element in the chain, I think the problem comes from me coz the stuff I use are good and work for everyone. As if I couldn't properly "analyze" what I hear, sort of a bad understanding of the sound if that makes sense. E.g I ALWAYS find a very unpleasant boost in my tones, in the 2-4kHz, without knowing exactly what to do to fix that. And it looks like nothing can help EQ wise. At the same time great guitar tones have a decent amount in that range...

@cobhc: What does mean OT? I grabbed the DIs here: (see description) but Ola opened also a thread here with raw tracks too. UM thread > http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/practice-room/854009-feared-mixing-competition-2013-a.html.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
in my opinion it still sounds like your amp is behind a wall or something. or like you would listen to the cab from the side or behind than from the front...
cobhc's sound is way clearer..his low end is better.
I would have tried to reamp the riff too now but the files seems to be no longer available..
 
The Framus version i like personally the best from yours.
I ran the di through my IR setup and was a bit astonished. When i play through them they normally don't sound that good....but now i dig it o_O have to be Ola..
Did you try redwirez mesa impulse and the ownhammer mesa ones? I like the combination of them..separately they are a bit weird. But i always liked them more than torpedo which i find kinda hollow.

I would really look at a brighter setup in the torpedo ..more in the framus direction :)

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7625817/heabow/stereo.mp3
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7625817/heabow/mono.mp3
 
Man this sounds great.
Really I don't understand what's wrong with me. I always get a boost in the 2-4kHz. Always. As a result it sounds harsh and cheap as fuck. If I cut around there, it sounds muffled and my guitars doesn't sound in the face at all. Even in this case, the DIs are great, I use a pretty awesome amp with good common settings and great IRs too. I could process my tracks as far as possible, it will still sound like shit and not as good as your raw or others. I'm facing a big "?" here :confused:
 
Well, i didn't process the sound just used my IRs preset and you are using a 5150 too with the torpedo instead, so there can not be much possibilites where the "fault" lies. Give me your direct out from the amp..lets see how that sounds with my IRs :) i could also upload my direct amp out and you try it with the torpedo when its the software version. Either the torpedo isn't your thing or the ampsetting isn't that good.
 
you have some weird settings. Gain 1.7 and you have more distortion than i have on 6..but i dont really know the difference between peavey 5150 and EVH5150iii.
But Low 10 is indeed tooooo much :eek: And how did you set the Resonance on the back of the amp? Try low around 1 o'clock and resonance on 3 o'clock.
And the 50w head gets totally muddy when volume/postgain is above 2.5 because the powertubes seems to saturate from 2.5/3.. i have it on 9 o'clock to leave some headroom.

here is your amp with my IRs
 
Yes that's right, the settings are quite weird but I started with Lasse settings I found here but after trying several IRs and settings in Torpedo it didn't work so I started to find other settings on the amp. What I was looking for was more low end and less high mid actually. I will try tomorrow following your advices. Thanks a ton for taking time to help me, I really appreciate :headbang:
 
lows @ 10? :err: cant you hear that your guitar tones have a massive amount of lows clouding everything? your problem is not the 2-4kHz.
 
When i look at lasses settings over there they are pretty much the same i use. only i have mids always on 2 for metal.
When you still feel you have not enough bass and crank low to 10 then maybe there is something wrong monitoringwise..
no problem man..i had similar issues and struggled 2 or 3 years to find something useable with IRs.

Habsburgs said:
lows @ 10? :err: cant you hear that your guitar tones have a massive amount of lows clouding everything? your problem is not the 2-4kHz.
Click to expand...

I totally agree! :D
 
Yup

Well, here is what I get with the "Lasse" settings on the channel 2 (Gain: 4 / Low: 6 / Mid: 3 / High: 6 / Vol: 2 / Pres: 8 / Reso at 3 o'clock). No TS and totally raw.

with 'Alpha' IR from Jake impulse pack V2:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/36870048/JakeAlphaIR.mp3

with his 'Beta' IR:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/36870048/JakeBetaIR.mp3

Don't know what you'll think of that but to me the first clip is hyper fizzy and has no low end at all. The second one is better but doesn't sound as in the face as the clips you guys shared above. Maybe I'm wrong... I cannot trust my ears in fact.
 
The Alpha IR sounds indeed shrill but thats the IR. Beta sounds awesome. I like that better than mine. You get an awesome "clank" and roar that i never get :/
Could you apply the beta on my reamp? would like to know if the clank comes from your amp or your IRs.
When you have a problem with your beta sample..check your ears man!
An impulse is not that flexible as a real mic and what you dislike is probably a not perfect mic placement (used for creating the IR) that match your expectations (regarding the 2-4kHz thing you mentioned).
Stick with those settings (Low 5-7, Mid 2-4, Hi 5-7, Res around 3 o'cl.) and everything else is a matter of the IR. Of course if you have an IR like Alpha you need to have a setting outside of that pattern. But usually and in really most cases the above are the most balanced ones.
 
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