Guitar tones help...

N

nwright

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Apr 19, 2005
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New Castle, Indiana
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So, I posted a clip yesterday in the production tips thread, but this is a more appropriate place. I'm struggling to find a nice guitar tone. I'd like to use 2 amps, my 6505+ and my Madison Divinity, but my tone tests so far have yielded nothing but boxy tone. I reverted back to my live settings and I'm liking it better, but any tips? My last recording I used the Fredman technique to good effect, so I'll probably end up going back to that, but I was hoping to mix it up a little...But, I'm not liking my results.

Here's where I was at Monday:
http://geetarguy.tripod.com/bitter_end_test.mp3

And here's where I was last night:
http://geetarguy.tripod.com/bitterendtest2.mp3

*I know the clips vary in volume quite a bit. sorry about that.


I'm using a Madison cab loaded with V30's, but the cab has a metal grille. Should I remove it? Also, the cab is front loaded, which I've only had experience with rear loaded cabs. Could any of this cause a more boxy sound (other than mic placements, obviously)?
 
I wouldn't say it's boxy. It's more about nasality (800~1200Hz).
Could you post a clip with only the 5150 and another with only the divinity?
Maybe these amps simply do not blend that good.
Be sure the impedence between the cab and the head is matching (16/16, 8/8 or 4/4). Sometimes a
a bigger load from the cab can bring a bit of nasality.
Make sure the cab is loaded with V30 and not some crap speakers.
Question the room acoustics. A small dead booth without proper treatment can ruin it. A bigger room with a least Mid/high absorbers will cause less problems.
Try different settings with less mids even if it looks goofy.
 
Cab is a Madison 4x12 loaded with Vintage 30's. I'm recording in a bedroom, but I have the mattress flipped up against one wall and the box springs flipped up on another, so it sounds pretty dead. I think I may take the box springs out, so I get a little reflection from one wall. The Madison cabs have metal grilles and I ended up removing the grill and reset my mics. I'm doing the Fredman deal now, and it's sounding better. I'm wondering if the grill was causing some reflection problems. I also reset the mids down quite a bit which helped. I'll throw up a clip tonight if I can.

On our last CD, I just put my cab in a spare bedroom , right in the center with some pillows resting against the wall directly in front of the speakers - about 5 feet away. The rest of the room was untreated. But, I ended up liking the results pretty well. Not real thick, but it was an aggressive sound. Now that I have triplets, I've lost that room and I'm trying to make room in our spare bedroom...

*EDIT*
here's the best I could post from last night here at work (don't have access to everything)...No editing, nothing. It's VERY rough. I was just playing simple stream of consciousness stuff and then tried to quad track it...Not a good idea for tightness, but at least you can hear the tone. 2 tracks of 6505+ (L&R) blended with 2 tracks of Divinity (L&R). Fredman technique on my Madison cab with V30's. I kinda like this tone, and with some EQ tweaks I think it could work. The post gain on my 6505+ was at a little less than, and the Divinity was equal in volume, so I'm hoping some of the fizz will disappear when I increase the volume for actual tracking. I recorded this clip late last night, thus the reason for the low level.

It's a .wma file, I have no way of rendering mp3's here at work, just a windows media file:

http://geetarguy.tripod.com/guitstest.wma
 
I think in the first 2 clips there was a lot of mids that was having a negative impact on the tone. I really love mids in my tone too, I normally have to cut around 700-900Hz to fix it. Also with the fredman technique the mids get emphasized moreso, in my experience.

That last clip sounded really good too me, although it seemed like there was a lot of bass in it - you may want to watch that a bit. Keep it up!
 
^ thanks. After hearing your clip, though, I'm thinking mine is piss poor!

I'm hoping when I get to up the volume a bit the fizz factor will drop a good bit. The last clip was recorded at not-quite 1 on the 6505+'s post gain and the Divinity was low as well.

Bass and resonance is at 7 on the 6505+ and bass around 5 on the Divinity...May have to lower it a bit on the 6505+.

Also, like Oz said in the Clayman thread in regards to this technique, C4 or similar MB comp. might be in order.
 
the newest clip is a great improvement!
as machinated said, the bass from the guitars is a drawback here, but that can be sorted in the EQ
the clayman technique is definately helping with the sound
 
nwright said:
Here's an updated clip, Divinity only to try and sort it out. How's it sound?

http://geetarguy.tripod.com/bitter_end_test_4.mp3

Again, NO EQ other than HPF at 80Hz, LPF at 10K.
Click to expand...

I like the sound of that Divinity. I am a fan of tone with sizzle. It's definitely a modern sounding amp and sounds a bit like a Krankenstein.

Maybe stop trying to mix it with the 5150 and fine tune it a bit to sit nicely on it's own.

Overall, nice and tight, just needs a bit of 'thickening'. IMHO.
 
OK, here's what I'm settling on...6505+ and Divinity blended, with the Divinity 3dB's louder in the mix than the 6505+...I ended up using a single 57 on one speaker on axis about 2 inches from the edge of the dustcap and another 57 on a different speaker off axis about 2 inches from the edge of the dustcap.

This clip has a bit of C4 compressing 90Hz to 250Hz. HPF at 80Hz, LPF at 12KHz.

On axis mikes are 3dB louder than the off axis mikes on this mix.

2 tracks of the 6505+ (1 L and 1 R) and 2 tracks of the Divinity (1L and 1R) both panned 100% at the moment.

Personally I like this tone and think it will sound good in the mix. I've tried a couple different EQ setups with the idea of fitting bass in mind, and they all sound pretty good to me, so this is where I'm staying. Otherwise I could go on forever trying to find the "ideal tone". ugh.

There is some clipping, as I just rendered this mp3 right after I got done recording...Nothing on the master buss, either.

http://geetarguy.tripod.com/21gramstest.mp3
 
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