Guitars "clip" when by themselves

[[UEAK]Clowd]

I know this has been talked about before but I don't really have time to dig up the thread right now.

Why do distorted guitars sometimes "clip" when they are by themselves in a mastered mix? I swear, it's random. some songs/projects will let me max those motherfuckers out with no problems but then others I can barely get them loud enough without that gross ugly digital distortion.

WHY?! no matter what I do, I can't get rid of it. except by turning the master limiter off of course.

 

[chrisrivalry]

I've noticed this recently myself, I just backed off the saturation on the bus, and gain on the master eq.

 

[AdamWathan]

It's the limiter. When guitars are the only thing playing, the limiter is trying to limit something that isn't really percussive in nature or with much dynamics. So it is clipping the top end of the guitar waveforms. When you throw drums in, the only thing getting clipped are the drum transients so the guitars survive unscathed because they sit quieter than the highest drum peaks which get the choppin' and are able to be clipped much less audibly.

Your limiter in your case is sort of doing this (for the sake of a clear explanation) "okay normalize this section and then clip the top 1db". When it's just guitars, normalizing and clipping the top 1db results in basically clipping the guitars for the whole section because guitar tracks don't really have loud peaks, they are fairly static volume wise.

Now if you have a section with drums and you normalize and clip the top 1db, the drum transients are hitting a much higher level than the guitars so clipping the 1db off of the drums is still leaving the guitars alone.

 

[chrisrivalry]

yeah... or that!

 

[[UEAK]Clowd]

It's the limiter. When guitars are the only thing playing, the limiter is trying to limit something that isn't really percussive in nature or with much dynamics. So it is clipping the top end of the guitar waveforms. When you throw drums in, the only thing getting clipped are the drum transients so the guitars survive unscathed because they sit quieter than the highest drum peaks which get the choppin' and are able to be clipped much less audibly.

Your limiter in your case is sort of doing this (for the sake of a clear explanation) "okay normalize this section and then clip the top 1db". When it's just guitars, normalizing and clipping the top 1db results in basically clipping the guitars for the whole section because guitar tracks don't really have loud peaks, they are fairly static volume wise.

Now if you have a section with drums and you normalize and clip the top 1db, the drum transients are hitting a much higher level than the guitars so clipping the 1db off of the drums is still leaving the guitars alone.

yeah, word, thats pretty much what I figured, I'm just perplexed as to why one one master (even one that's mastered louder!!) it won't happen at all but on another, it will be really, really bad.

what the hell can I do about it? if I lower the threshold on the limiter it'll fix it but it will also go a lot quieter ...

 

[Morgan C]

Chimaira's "Resurrection" has the same issue.

You could automate the guitars down in the breaks. Would be easier if you're mastering it so you know how much to drop them.

 

[[UEAK]Clowd]

Chimaira's "Resurrection" has the same issue.

You could automate the guitars down in the breaks. Would be easier if you're mastering it so you know how much to drop them.

yeah. luckily I am mastering it but it still sucks. the guitars sound good at the volume they are at the whole way through.. if they werent going SHHCHCHCHCHCHH of course. (this band is static as shit)

 

[AudioGeekZine]

create your mastering chain before you do your final automation tweaks to the mix.

 

[AdamWathan]

yeah. luckily I am mastering it but it still sucks. the guitars sound good at the volume they are at the whole way through.. if they werent going SHHCHCHCHCHCHH of course. (this band is static as shit)

Well the reason they are distorting is because when they are by themselves your limiter is bringing them UP in volume, so they are not the same volume when they are clipping as they are when they are being played with drums. I would automate the limiter I guess or use a different one or try to balance the mix differently so it doesn't happen.

 

[[UEAK]Clowd]

Well the reason they are distorting is because when they are by themselves your limiter is bringing them UP in volume, so they are not the same volume when they are clipping as they are when they are being played with drums. I would automate the limiter I guess or use a different one or try to balance the mix differently so it doesn't happen.

I feel you but there must be something fatally wrong with these particular guitar tracks or something because the only way to get rid of this stupid clipping distortion is to back off the limiter so much that it is overly noticeable and sounds dumb. I've never had this problem THIS bad, and on some mixes I can CRANK the guitars even when they are by themselves with no issue at all..

I don't get it. I'm fuckin stumped.

 

[AdamWathan]

Maybe some brutal low end rumble in those guitar tracks that you can't hear very well in your room? Definitely try high passing them a bit if you haven't already!

 

[amarshism]

And low passing

 

[[UEAK]Clowd]

Maybe some brutal low end rumble in those guitar tracks that you can't hear very well in your room? Definitely try high passing them a bit if you haven't already!

that's what I thought, but my room is well treated. just in case I tried even a really severe high pass. like 400hz. still there.

i don't know. i didn't track this project. the DIs sounded kinda shitty but I just can't figure out what the hell it could be.