headphones to find a sweet spot

[youhannahkoos]

Hi guys!

Need help. I have a 212 cab with v30's. But it's not that handy to f**k around the cab with an sm57 trying to find the sweet spot. Especially if one doesn't have good closed back headphones.

I don't have it)))

Can you guys suggest me some good stuff - just enough isolation not to hear the cab while being close to it and moving a mic. And that will deliver the tone properly at the same time. No listening to music, no mixing on them...

the budget is just about 200 bucks... thanx in advance

 

[greyskull]

Do the same thing with the amp turned down loads, OR up loud and not playing anything; and move the mic til the fizz sounds good.

 

[Uros]

Yep, I have a set of pretty isolated cans, and I've found it fairly impossible to use them for the purpose you want, because I usually have amp's volume set at 3-4 out of 10.

So, if you don't want to turn the amp down, your best bet would be to do classic mic sweeping mm by mm (starting mic position: aim the cone center and go from there), then go back to control room for auditioning, rinse & repeat 'til you are satisfied, or to have an assistant pet do it for you while you are listening on the monitors in the control room. Or, you could try to do the good ol' Butch Vig trick with white noise.

 

[ArthurD]

Or do like Michael Wagener does... LOADS of mics

 

[lolzgreg]

Yep, I have a set of pretty isolated cans, and I've found it fairly impossible to use them for the purpose you want, because I usually have amp's volume set at 3-4 out of 10.

You can find the sweet spot with the volume turned down no problem. Wagener does it often that way

 

[Nimvi]

I also mic up on medium-low volume (and by that I mean, volume that you could play at in a living room without the neighbours calling the cops on you straight away). I do use rather isolating headphones (Sennheiser hd280), but the bass coming from the cab still pumps straight through, so things become really hard to judge at high volumes. I usually try to aim for a tone that doesn't sound harsh and hissy in the headphones, but still with nice forward mids and highmids.

Anything after that is trial and error, reamping small parts and listening on the monitors what needs correction. I have trouble judging lows and lowmids on those headphones anyway.

Funny thing I have been wondering about for a while: I have noticed that when I hear a good guitar tone through those headphones, it makes my teeth tingle... really weird but very practical! Has anyone ever had similar experiences? Or am I just a freak

 

[Uros]

You can find the sweet spot with the volume turned down no problem. Wagener does it often that way

Really? Interesting. Haven't tried that yet tbh, since amps do sound different at low volume vs cranked, so I've never bothered.
At what volume do you usually find yourself running your amps at, while auditioning various mic positions?

I usually go back and forth between the live and control room while auditioning, so this would help me to really save some precious studio time!

 

[mickrich]

I always do this to mic amps.
Send pink noise to amp through re-amp box.
Keep amp volume very low. Just enough that there is sound.
Put a 57 pointing straight at centre of cone and gain up mic pre to good level.
Very important to set buffer (latency) as low as possible for the next step.
Listen back through headphones (ath-m50s for me)
Rotate mic away from centre of cone until the first tone change.
Hard to describe but as you rotate mic you will hear ssshhhhiiiii > sssshhhuuuu
I leave the mic at the point of this first change just where the harsh high mids are gone.
The mic is now on axis to the actual cone rather than to the grill cloth.
This always sounds perfect to me and is easily repeatable once you get used to what you are looking for when sweeping the mic.
I could do a video if anyone is interested.

 

[Nimvi]

^ Interesting, I am going to give that a go next time I need to reamp something.

Any reason why you use pink noise for this instead of the typical "turn up the gain so you can hear the preamp hiss"?

 

[mickrich]

^ Interesting, I am going to give that a go next time I need to reamp something.

Any reason why you use pink noise for this instead of the typical "turn up the gain so you can hear the preamp hiss"?

Couple of reasons.
Pink noise has equal energy at all frequencies so it guarantees that the 4-5k fizz is at the right level for this technique.
Secondly, I would NEVER listen to a loud or very gained amp through headphones. The chance of a valve going microphonic or loudly buzzing or a guitarist deciding to plug in while I am in the live room with the cab is small but career threatening.
Pink noise allows you to keep the amp and gain low.
Where I teach the ex house engineer got a perforated ear drum from a drummer hitting a snare right next to his ear while he was setting up mics. Never trust musicians!

If re-amping isn't available where I am recording, such as the studio where I teach, I use an iphone app designed to help you sleep. I set it to white noise and use a mini jack to 1/4 inch cable to plug into the amp. Works fine.

 

[B36arin]

I love the "loads of mics" method. Last time I set up three 57s and three 421s, recorded a snippet, chose my favourite mics, moved the other ones around, repeat, repeat, repeat. But I realise that's not an option for many people...

 

[Nimvi]

Couple of reasons.
Pink noise has equal energy at all frequencies so it guarantees that the 4-5k fizz is at the right level for this technique.
Secondly, I would NEVER listen to a loud or very gained amp through headphones. The chance of a valve going microphonic or loudly buzzing or a guitarist deciding to plug in while I am in the live room with the cab is small but career threatening.
Pink noise allows you to keep the amp and gain low.
Where I teach the ex house engineer got a perforated ear drum from a drummer hitting a snare right next to his ear while he was setting up mics. Never trust musicians!

If re-amping isn't available where I am recording, such as the studio where I teach, I use an iphone app designed to help you sleep. I set it to white noise and use a mini jack to 1/4 inch cable to plug into the amp. Works fine.

Points taken, thanks! I might fiddle around with this technique just for the hell of it, eventough i don't have anything to record right now. Never hurts to set aside some time to practice techniques

 

[cartoonhead]

Try to use 3M noise cancelling headphones (peltor series, etc...) simultaneously with good in-ear heaphones. For my expirience, this really works.

 

[worldwideweapon]

I always do this to mic amps.
Send pink noise to amp through re-amp box.
Keep amp volume very low. Just enough that there is sound.
Put a 57 pointing straight at centre of cone and gain up mic pre to good level.
Very important to set buffer (latency) as low as possible for the next step.
Listen back through headphones (ath-m50s for me)
Rotate mic away from centre of cone until the first tone change.
Hard to describe but as you rotate mic you will hear ssshhhhiiiii > sssshhhuuuu
I leave the mic at the point of this first change just where the harsh high mids are gone.
The mic is now on axis to the actual cone rather than to the grill cloth.
This always sounds perfect to me and is easily repeatable once you get used to what you are looking for when sweeping the mic.
I could do a video if anyone is interested.

This sounds super cool technique. Can you describe a bit more the starting point / angle and position of the mic when you start the rotation. Thanks.