Heavy Guitars: Blending Multiple Amps

[Darkening]

I know that a Dual Rectifier + JCM800 or 5150 is a pretty standard setup for hard rock & metal.

I want to quadtrack the rhythm guitars, so there are 4 performances. Normally I would just do 2 with the Mesa and 2 with the Marshall and pan the Mesa < L and the Marshall > R.

I'd like to blend the Marshall or 5150 and Mesa together to one track so I would have 4 tracks of the MesaMarshall hybrid.

How do you blend the amps together on one track?

Do you use subractive EQ or HPF/LPF's to focus on the elements you're after before blending them? For example do you use a LPF on the Mesa to just keep the lows and then a HPF to just keep the highs and then print both to one track? Or do you just route both to an audio track and adjust the levels until it sounds good?

Any suggestions or starting points you have would be great!

 

[greyskull]

blend the signal and send to a stereo bus, then treat it there

 

[Darkening]

blend the signal and send to a stereo bus, then treat it there

Thanks, but I was asking for techniques on how to blend them!

 

[Ermz]

Try to focus the amps into their specific voice when actually dialing the tone at the amp. The best way is if they blend naturally (ala the 5150 and Recto).

I would bus each pair of guitars together, then do the essentials there (HPF, LPF, fizz removal, low-mid control... essentially all the subtractive EQ). After this I'd bus those pairs into a group where all 4 guitar tracks meet. There I would do all the additive EQ, like brightening etc.

 

[Darkening]

Thanks Moonlapse!

That's exactly what I was looking for.

So when you're blending them together you treat each one as you would normally? For example, you do HPF/LPF on them, but do you LP the Mesa track a lot lower than normal (12kHz), say around 2k and then HP the Marshall around 1k or something like a crossover so you're using only the lows and mids of the Mesa and the presence of the Marshall, or is that overthinking it and over EQing it?

Thanks again.

 

[Ermz]

Yeah, that's overthinking AND over-EQing, hehe.

Listen to the tones by themselves. If it's a rectifier and 5150... the recto may need a higher high pass to kill off all those huge cab lows. Or maybe you want the recto to hold the bottom end, so you high pass the 5150 at around 100Hz?

It's really down to how you want to sculpt the tone. It's not written in stone anywhere. Above all just listen, experiment and you'll arrive at what method works best for you.

 

[greyskull]

haha ok
heres a slightly better description.

1) bus the guitars together,
2) blend them till the tone is to your liking.
3) use one surgical eq for making all your cuts and filtering on the bus (q10 cambridge etc)
4) use a musical eq after it for your boosts (neve/ssl style)

thats just my method, the one above sounds pretty ace too.
try a bit of both

 

[Darkening]

Here is what I've been doing:

1. EQ on the Dual Rectifier to boost the lows & highs, and cut the mids (not completely)

2. EQ on the Marshall (or 5150) to boost the mids and cut the lows and highs (not completely)

3. Bus them together and adjust the levels until I like the blend, adjusting the amp's EQ more if they aren't blending well.

4. Subtractive EQ and multiband compression on that one track.

I don't boost anything until I get the guitars into the mix, but from there I have been using Colin Richardson's EQ ranges as starting points for boosts.

 

[Darkening]

How do you deal with phase issues when blending multiple amps on the same performance?

I only have one 4x12 so I can't run both amps at the same time. Therefore I have to reamp at least one of the tracks.

If the mic is in the same position on the same cab and I switch out the head, I'll be getting a lot of phase problems, right? Should I change the mic position, or mic a different speaker, or even a different cab?

Thanks again!

 

[Nebulous]

Try it just to be sure, but from my understanding leaving the mic in the same position should result in 0 phase problems.

 

[JBroll]

If you wind up with phase problems try moving one track back and forth a little at a time until they line up properly. You shouldn't have any problems that can't be fixed that way.

Jeff

 

[greyskull]

If you wind up with phase problems try moving one track back and forth a little at a time until they line up properly. You shouldn't have any problems that can't be fixed that way.

Jeff

this can work to a certain degree, but its not absolute. phase issues when they want to be a pain in the arse will move constantly , making this sort of thing sketchy, granted it can often work though

 

[JBroll]

this can work to a certain degree, but its not absolute. phase issues when they want to be a pain in the arse will move constantly , making this sort of thing sketchy, granted it can often work though

I should clarify a couple of assumptions I've made, then. First, I'm assuming that the amps will not all of a sudden decide that bass will come out after treble; most circuits should behave like this and not make a time-shifted smodge out of everything. Second, I'm assuming that, as he said, the mic wasn't moved. Third, I'm assuming that he has the patience to use very small time delays. Phase issues don't want to be a pain in the arse; the box just does what it's told and that's the end of that. I would guess that the vast majority of phase problems from reamping do in fact come from improper placement in the beginning, as the slightest shift can make things go off, and time shifting can solve that problem.

Assuming that the amps aren't already time-shifting different parts of the sound a great deal, there shouldn't be anything that enough patience with that little shift won't solve.

Jeff

 

[greyskull]

you be right breadbin.