Hey guys, point me in the right direction

[RaDiKaL]

So here's my stupid question.

In every good mix the drums seem to sit a bit behind the guitars. They are nice and loud and clear, but they feel like they are further back in the stereo field.

I'm not just talking about clarity here which is achived by carving the EQ for every instrument, nor the punchiness or volume that you can control with compression. So is it the reverb/room? What am I missing here? [I'm talking about sampled drums mostly]

Ofcourse a good mix is dependent on all of the above, but what's the first thing to do to get the drums to sound sort-of in the back and "contained" if you know what i mean. I just want a pointer in the right direction, not "how do mix drums"

 

[bryan_kilco]

I understand what you're saying...but it really depends. Some albums have the drums more up-front and the guitars sit slightly behind the drums. I personally like this way better, as if I have my guits and drums right around the same level (volume-wise), things start to get lost. I feel like I have been totally missing something as well, since I feel like I can get a good drum sound, but then when I add guitars and bass, things get muddy.

 

[RaDiKaL]

Yeah and it's not frequency wise muddy. I mean I can carve lets say the snare's dominant frequencies out of the guitars and make it sound nice and clean, but still it "sits" right there beside them not in the "back" as in a good mix.

The worst offenders are the toms. Sure you can clean some space for them, but on those rolls they step on everything, meaning the sound way too up front...

 

[SethTheGreat]

I used to have the same issues and I feel like I recently overcame them. I was reading the posts on this forum about tracking levels and correct use of compressing/limiting/clipping and I took serious note of Slate's posts. The free plugin "gclip" that he suggested was a huge help. As were many of the other posts in this thread:

http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/production-tips/278894-getting-your-loudness.html

Study there and give that a shot. Also search out similar threads concerning compression and clipping techniques.

 

[Tommy Gun]

As far as actual dB, my drums buss is always a little louder than my guitar buss. I think you're probably just hearing where the reverb puts the drums in the stereo/depth field. I've found that anytime someone makes the guitar louder than the drums, they get an even worse sounding mix than Arch Enemy's "Rise of The Tyrant". (WTF was Nordstrom smoking?)

 

[ahjteam]

Hey guys, point me in the right direction

Read those:

 

[guitarguru777]

I find when mixing that my drums are normally LOUDER then the guitars, but they seem further back in the mix due to the guitars being Dry and the Drums having some verb on them.

 

[RaDiKaL]

Thanks for the input guys. So it's the use of a reverb(or the manipulation of the room mics?) that "pushes" them back in the stereo field.

I wasn't sure because most people seem to like to use a verb only on the snare for that tail.

@ahjteam:

 

[timislegend]

>process each drum to taste (eq/comp) ...apply whatever verb/room to taste (obviously).

>group the percussion with heavy attack emphasis... example: kick/snare/toms.

>process the grouped perc. with a buss compressor... ie. ssl comp/the glue etc.

>to increase body in that group use a clipper (gclip/t-racks classic clipper)... or you can clip high end converters to pull the loudness up of that group.

>make sure the brass is mixed to taste ...example: hp/mild-comp/boost some highs.

you can also clip a mix buss and do an internal layback for summing... then process the entire drums as a 2-track stem adding another lite compressor/clipper/limiter.


i think about 60% of what i just said is subjective... however if you do this, you will notice an immediate overall decrease of dynamic range while still emphasizing the punch and body of your drums.