Hey Paul... what was the name of that band with Pasi?

[NvmbrsDoom5]

Yep, yknow....*here comes the rant, LOL*....it's not that I don't respect bands like Paramecium, My Dying Bride, Paradise Lost, etc., because I do and I enjoyed some of those bands' cds and such. But I take issue a little bit with how much people seem to think that those bands "invented" stuff like adding violins and female vocals to metal, and creating epic, depressing heavy metal. Go listen to "Into The Pandemonium" by Celtic Frost. That album came out in 1987. Songs like "Rex Irae (Requiem)", "Tristesses De La Lune/Sorrows Of The Moon", etc., are basically what these other bands (including ND) built off of, quite directly. I heard that album when I was 14 years old and it had a very big effect on me, to this day.

If you really like stuff like Paramecium and My Dying Bride, and you haven't heard "Into The Pandemonium", please do sometime. Not to mention their other earlier albums and Hellhammer's "Apocalyptic Raids". In fact, it's funny to me that people are bitching about how slow and doomy "Monotheist" is, considering that in fact has more in common with early CF/Hellhammer than the really fast stuff. CF was much more sludgy/heavy/doomy overall than they were thrashy, though they did have their moments.

Celtic Frost + Winter + Trouble + Grave (at half speed) = the basis for the original foundation of Novembers Doom. Period.

 

[AnTz0r]

ok of course you're right, but still there weren't that many bands in the early nineties doing that, right?

oh well, i am not up to par with my metal history knowledge... haven't been around for that long.

as for frost, i'll give em another try. saw em at wacken last year and didn't like it one bit, but i guess that wouldn't mean that much. also i didn't like paramaecium at first, as i didn't like ulver first time, or death, or opeth or anything else that was too extreme for me at the time. just have to keep trying so we'll see

 

[Septembers Marc]

Hi y'all! In my opinion there were three bands in the late 80's who set the standard for what was to be called "Doom Metal" in the 90's and you all know those, Paradise Lost, My Dying Bride and Anethema from the Peaceville label. But it's only because those bands became (relatively) famous and set the standard for this genre. I believe there were far more bands doing stuff like this in the mid/late 80's, but never so obvious. Even not Candlemass.

 

[OPETH_DT]

I have the original and reissue of that Winter cd.

 

[NvmbrsDoom5]

Hi y'all! In my opinion there were three bands in the late 80's who set the standard for what was to be called "Doom Metal" in the 90's and you all know those, Paradise Lost, My Dying Bride and Anethema from the Peaceville label. But it's only because those bands became (relatively) famous and set the standard for this genre. I believe there were far more bands doing stuff like this in the mid/late 80's, but never so obvious. Even not Candlemass.

Yeah. If you listen to those songs I mentioned on "Into The Pandemonium", I think it's incredibly obvious where those British doom/death bands got their influence from. And it's where we got our influence from as well. I'm not knocking what the "British 3" accomplished, or how many people they influenced. I'm just saying that alot of people give them credit for 100% creating the whole style of epic doom-y metal with violins, operatic female vocals, the moaning painful male vocals, etc.....and it's just not accurate. They were quite directly influenced by CF. And as such, so were we. We had those same influences as those British bands. Which is why, when we found out about those British bands we said "Oh cool, these bands are totally up our alley." Instead people seem to think we came later and copied those British bands, which is utter bullshit. The first Paradise Lost album was death metal with very little of the elements which would later create their "Gothic" sound.

Anyways, the point is, MDB, Anathema, PL, Nov Doom, and others came along in the early 90s and took what bands like Winter and Celtic Frost had done, and ran with it, added their own touch to it, etc. The Brits were the ones who got lucky basically, and found a home early on with Peaceville and were the first ones to get international exposure. And so, the uninformed peons of the world then presumed that if your cd came out after that, and then if you weren't from Europe as well, you were just some copycats. It's a stigma that we'll have to live with for the rest of our lives, even though it's completely inaccurate. Even members of MDB have confirmed ND's legitmacy, and yet the fanboys and critics stick to their guns. If someone just doesnt like us, then cool man, so be it. But don't tell us what we did and did not do, and try to change around history. ND was there in 1990, 1991, playing slow and ripping off Celtic Frost just like the rest of them haha

And yeah I know I wasnt a member back then, but I was around, I watched the band evolve. I also had my own doom/death band back during that time roughly, but that's a whole 'nother story heh

 

[NvmbrsDoom5]

And yeah I guess I should once again state that this isnt directed at anyone here, since there inevitably winds up being misunderstanding. I'm just ranting about the kind of shit we've had to deal with and the misconceptions that are floating around out there about this subject.

 

[Jesse Pohjalainen]

Here's a hint to our European fans... If you have not already, you MIGHT want to start checking out Ajattara.

Zod, All 4 CD's are awesome. It's hard to suggest what to start with. I started with their first CD, "Itse." Very catchy, and tons of hook. It's what "hooked" me into the band. Their newest release "Äpäre" is also a good starting point!

All the lyrics are in Finnish (I believe) and normally this would get to me, but this band is so fucking good, it doesn't matter I can't understand them. I don't have enough praise for this band.

Yep. All the Ajattara lyrics are in Finnish but I can assure you that they are not happytime lyrics.
I could translate some of their lyrics, but they use difficult words for that and that could ruin the magic.
If anybody cares 'Itse' means 'Self', 'Äpäre' means 'Bastard'....
And I think that they have an album called 'Kuolema' which means 'Death' :Smug:

 

[AnTz0r]

However, at the end of 2006 Ajattara's long time group broke up, when Pasi Koskinen made neo-nazi salutes and other same related political statements during a concert.

(This sort-of black metal band led by Pasi Koskinen ex-Amorphis) sounded decent and some of the songs were nice, but sometimes it got a little bit repetitive and dull along the line. They have a weird fascination with nazist things (Pasi did the sieg heil greeting a few times, their guitarist had sleeve braces with the black/white four leaf star thingy and their keyboardist had a military shirt with german flags), and that did look very out of place and unnecessary for the band.

Saw them at Nosturi last week, I was a bit displeased and disappointed by Koskinen's Sieg Heil...

wtf??!! i hope these are just unfounded rumours, or that there is some catch to it...

 

[NvmbrsDoom5]

I wouldn't read too much into it, that was a thing going around a while back and I think it was an isolated incident. There's two sides (at least) to every story.