Hi End on guitars

[Volcane]

One thing I hate is harsh or 'fizzy' guitars.

Does anyone use a hi cut on guitar frequecies to remove harshness?

I read somewhere that Instrument speakers do not produce much useful noise over 5KHz, but is this true? I really love the guitars on DHIADW, which to these cloth ears sound clear, punchy, in no way dull, but not harsh in the slightest.

Is there some rough 'top and bottom guidelines' for EQ? We're using POD Xt with the metal packs btw, but I guess the question applies to all guitars. I'm trying to get the guitars to not mask cymbals or vocal transients...

Any help appreciated.

 

[Ermz]

Don't quote me on this, but I think Andy rolls off above 7khz or something (the figure could be wrong) on the guitars. The SM57 has some nasty fizz that it creates, but it can be eliminated like this.

I think it just depends on what kind of sound you're after. What I would suggest doing is getting a copy of the new Nevermore record (where Andy pulled his best guitar sound, in my opinion), going to a part where the rhythm guitar plays alone (like on 2:23 of the title track) and check it with a spectrum analyzer. See for yourself how much 5khz+ there is.

 

[~BURNY~]

I did this and I was surprised by the amount of low/low mid... So here's an additionnal (maybe stupid) question for Andy:
Do you roll off those Low frequencies when others instruments come in or leave it as it is?

 

[Ermz]

Maybe he uses that C4 setting on the master stereo bus?

 

[Brett - K A L I S I A]

I think it's more around 12KHz than 7KHz which is very low... That's what I usually do actually (sometimes even higher).

 

[Black neon bob]

Great question!

I was just about to open a thread similliar to this one, since i use a POD XT with metal pack as well, and we all know the POD has horrible fizz on it.. trebly as well.. that's standard with the POD, and i guess EMG's are not helping either if you want it to sound less trebly/fizzy...

Anyway, i have been wondering about this as well, since the new nevermore album contains great guitar sounds, sharp, punchy, clear, yet no fizz at all... i have tried to get it around that sound, but i always end up compensating the lack of punch and clearity with high end...

It would be really great to hear some tips on this one from the guys here... great thread!

 

[Matt Smith]

What cabinet emulation are you using on the POD? Try some different ones, as they seem to have different levels of fizziness, kinda similar to real cabs.

 

[Volcane]

I'll have to check on the speaker cab emulation.

Glad the thread has got a few opinions going!

Matt - I listened to your POD samples a while back, and that's a good, clear sound as well. I realise that I'm using too much low end thump/boom.

I found some fizz/mud around 5/6KHz and dialled it out, and I think that I'm getting something useable, but you always want to improve...

 

[Hopkins-WitchfinderGeneral]

Use the little onboard eq on the pod for stuff like that, cutting highs and lows off.

I generally tend to use a low/pass high cut a long way up depending on what pod model i used to track, some times it's cool to let a bit of the harshness in tho, for reasons of a tr00 black metal nature.

 

[Volcane]

I though that the point of BM was that production values were errr.. 'minimal'
sort of like throwing a filing cabinet down a liftshaft...


*prepares to be flamed*

 

[Hopkins-WitchfinderGeneral]

Depends which black metal band you care to mention.

Emperor had a couple of great productions, the new Enslaved sounds pretty decent... darkthrone sounds like wank...

 

[Torniojaws]

As for BM productions, I would like to mention Mayhem's classic De Mysteriis Dom Sathanas. Even though the album is very tr00 evil kvlt grim in the production, it is still very clear and surprisingly good in the mix.

 

[Kazrog]

Depends which black metal band you care to mention.

Emperor had a couple of great productions, the new Enslaved sounds pretty decent... darkthrone sounds like wank...

Hahaha... I like Emperor's live album best production-wise. A lot easier to make sense of everything in the mix...

I swear Darkthrone just goes out in the forest, throws down a Tascam 4-track and some Radio Shack mics on the ground and jams out. So tr000!!!

 

[~BURNY~]

Reminds me an awful Burzum album I bought a long time ago. Seems like they only kept the fizzyness and rolled off everything else...

 

[Matt Crooks]

For guitars I cut everything below 80hz, even the 7-strings. That really cleans up the guitars and leaves room for the bass. In my experiments with the POD, this really helped the guitar sound there too. It sounds really thin by itself, but mixed with a solid bass track it works really well.

I use a ribbon mic on the guitar amps, so it already cuts some of the high end, but when I've used a dynamic (sm57 or 421) I'll roll off somewhere between 12-15k maybe 3-4db.

 

[Volcane]

I did read that Andy cut everything below 200Hz, but I'm not sure if that was 7 strings or not.

I guess that if you're using a Hi Pass or Low cut on a 7 string, and then on a 'conventional' 6 string, the frequency would be different so as not to lose the low end on the 7 or have unwanted low end on the 6. Hmmm...

 

[Hopkins-WitchfinderGeneral]

Hahaha... I like Emperor's live album best production-wise. A lot easier to make sense of everything in the mix...

I swear Darkthrone just goes out in the forest, throws down a Tascam 4-track and some Radio Shack mics on the ground and jams out. So tr000!!!

They actually record in some guy's basement, no shit!

 

[Matt Smith]

I did read that Andy cut everything below 200Hz, but I'm not sure if that was 7 strings or not.

No way, that would cut the track's balls right off. He's said he usually rolls off below 60 cycles or so (probably depending on tuning).

 

[Ermz]

cycles = hertz?

 

[SliderJeff]

cycles = hertz?

Yes. 1/seconds = hertz = cycles, as in "60 cycle hum", etc. "Cycles" was used more often about 25-30 years ago as opposed to Hertz... at least in the engineering world. With the advent of a fairly knowledgeable consumer base compared to those days (i.e. people understand sampling rate and things of that ilk) the proper "hertz" term is used alot more often.

Later,
Jeff, your EE buddy