Hitler's children: Germans deface U.S. flag but don't object if Saddam invades Turkey

[XzanderX]

the current US government is bad, the people of the US is good. why is a bad government running the show? why doesn't more people stand up the the government, why is there still a 60% support for going to war with Iraq without UN support?

 

[avi]

most of america is filled with idiots. only the coasts seem to have the smarties.


(hi jake!)

 

[deadair]

...yes yes, ha ha...


(hi eric!)

 

[xfer]

talking about a "good people/bad government" divide in the U.S. is maybe misleading, though, because it evokes images of REAL "good people/bad government" countries like Iran, and that's like showing a scratch on your finger to some guy who lost his arm and complaining about it.

 

[xfer]

Also, don't confuse the antiwar issue for the "get UN support" issue. UN support is crap, seriously, and whether the war should or shouldn't be fought should be decided entirely outside the sphere of UN negotiations.

 

[VangelicSurgeon]

yeah it's more like good people/dumb government

 

[xfer]

i dunno josh, i agree with avi..."dumb people/dumb government".

 

[deadair]

...i think the coasts tend to be a little 'full' of themselves...


but what do i know

 

[XzanderX]

xfer, the UN was formed for these situations. so why should we overrun it's authority?

 

[avi]

jake, you don't know shit you stupid middle-american suv-drivin' bush-voting moron!!@

 

[deadair]

<--------

 

[tar]

dumb people/dumb government, good tv shows and magazine articles.

 

[xfer]

(crap, i cut and pasted the same argument twice)

A United-Nations-League-of-Nations-type thing is good as a forum and as a way to resolve some international crises, but it absolutely doesn't work in some situations. RUSSIA is sitting on the Security Council, with a veto; why the heck would they EVER support an action that destroys their economic interests, regardless of how "just" it is? Veto, veto, veto, and how interesting that the opposition and support in the UN went completely along profitable lines? (Germany, France, Russia, and Belgium all have something big to gain if the war doesn't happen; the US and its allies have something big to gain if the war DOES happen; caught in the middle...is Iraq)

Even if you don't think this particular war is "just", how can you advocate creating a situation where you have to say to the citizens of a country: "Sorry about the crimes against humanity being committed, but the guy committing them was smart enough to get into business with someone who has a veto. We can't do anything."?

 

[XzanderX]

the whole veto thing sucks. that should be removerd, but if remember correctly it's only the Security Council that can remove it... and like that is gonna happen.

 

[xfer]

I guess I'd support a reformed United Nations, but right now I think every country--the US included--acts very selfishly and has the power to affect actions other countries want to or need to take because of its selfishness. And that's horrible.

 

[minxnim]

well, zander, there is a lot in between that. one, the goverment makes it easy for people to not vote. they make it easy to ignore it because they lie to people here a lot and people here want to believe that the government doesn't lie. it also has to do with our shitty educational system. most people don't even know what year the civil war started in the US. never mind understand what 'globalization' means or whatever. and the government feeds on fear.
i don't want to die. it's scary. i mean, i have the insight to step outside and look in a bit. but a lot of people here, especially in NYC, just dont want to get blown up again.


i dont think most americans are idiots. i think most americans are victims of their own fear of being possibly free. i think most people in general are. every single one of us is totally guilty of building our beliefs on bad Propaganda at some time or another, and of being a wuss and not really thinking hard about stuff and really looking into it. and most of us don't do jack fucking shit to help people who are too fucked over to help themselves.

 

[minxnim]

also, never believe a poll about US citizen's opinions. those are always always false. whether they lean left, or right.

 

[xfer]

can't argue with that. but preppy has more faith in people not being idiots than i do.

 

[minxnim]

i dont even think there is such a thing as stupidity. it all boils down to people being too afraid. maybe, and i am guessing here that's all, but maybe i feel this way because i grew up with the people everyone thinks are idiots. vietnam vets, drug addicts, living in trailer parks, alcoholics and hells angels, girls with kids at age 13. i was one of those idiots. you know? and they weren't idiots. it's just, they were afraid to assert. they were already so down. they didn't want to stick their necks out anymore.

 

[avi]

preppy makes good points, but like xfer says, has a lot more faith in the intelligence of the american public.

I do agree that the education system is mostly to blame. Our school systems are downright disgusting.