OMG!!!!
Okay, I'd ordered a bunch of tubes off ebay for when my 6260 came in; it was a sick package deal of 4 JJ 6L6 tubes, and 6 Tung-Sol 12ax7's.
Now, I was kinda disappointed to find out when I got the Tung-Sol's that they are made in Russia, and have *almost* the same plate design/internal structure as Electro Harmonix tubes, because I just don't prefer the sound of Russian tubes.
But after experimenting on my Carvin Bel-Air 2x12 50 watt combo (2 EL84 power tubes, 5 12ax7 preamp tubes) I just discovered something WONDERFUL.
I'd already settled on my preference of a JJ 12ax7 in V1 for the main distortion tone-shaper, but I was messing around seeing where the Tung-Sol's sounded good in conjunction with that, and seeing how they sounded in V1 themselves. I didn't like them in V1 because Russian tubes have this like, spongy loose bottom end (listen to the very first Divine Empire album, its that sound) and the JJ's have this absolutely tight crispness to them. Plate structure DOES MAKE A DIFFERENCE!!!
Anyway, I finally gave up really caring, and ended up leaving in the last tube configuration I tried out so that I could just concentrate on practicing/writing for a while.
This combination was:
V1 - JJ
V2 - Tung-sol
V3 - umm... a Chinese Groove Tube i think but v3 is the clean channel
V4 - I think a Russian Grooves Tube, or an Electro Harmonix, but v4 is reverb
V5 - Tung-sol balanced output because V5 is the phase-inverter
So, I had my main overdrive tone of the JJ with a slight twist because half of V2 is for clean, the other half for overdrive. I was practicing shit on the G and D strings, doing some palm-muted scale runs, and then all of a sudden I heard something......
I kept messing around, with different palm muting intensity/level, and then I heard it again: It was this CHORUS SOUND!!!
HOLY FUCKING SHIT!!! HOLY OVER-TONES!!!!!!!!!
I couldn't fucking believe it. I'd NEVER, EVER EVER EVER heard that from a tube amp before. I fucking could not believe it. It's unreal; if you palm mute a certain way that lets the string vibrate, but not ring out alone, HOLY SHIT its like I just turned on a CHORUS PEDAL!!!!
I swear to god; I'm gonna get a recording up of it within the next few days so I can show this to you guys. I'd read that a lot of pro metal players use Tung-Sol tubes in their amps, so thats why I got them, and I'd thought they had this unique plate structure that I SWORE I saw, with 4 independently-enclosed cathodes or whatever, as opposed to the 2 big enclosed plate things, so thats why I got them in the first place.
But omfg guys, I swear to god... I don't know if this is something everyone else knows about and I'm just an ignorant tube afficionado, but wow.
Like, I'm dead fucking serious. It works best on the G and D strings for whatever reason, but you can get it a little on the A and low E too; its all in the amount of palm-muting you used. and I noticed it was most pronounced when doing like 8th note runs, or at least thats when that sound had the most impact and was the most noticeable.
But I just couldn't believe it.... I saw there thinking "Wow, so THIS is what great tubes sound like"
At first I was just like "okay, they're almost exactly like Electro Harmonix tubes, so why do they cost like $16 each at stores..." but now I get why. Absolutely incredible. It still has that spongy bottom end to it, but I know I can tighten that up with my EQ pedal or something when I put them in my Bugera.
But anyway... i've got 2 in my Carvin right now, and I'll probably use 2 in my Bugera, depending on what it sounds like, but I'm gonna get another balanced JJ tube for my Carvin so that I can have that other Tung-sol tube free for use elsewhere. The JJ tube I have in V1 right now is balanced for phase inverter use, so that might be why its tone is way better than all of my other GT and EH tubes i'd been using.
So, if anybody wants to try one or two..... I'm gonna have extras. Tung-sol tubes shouldn't be kept laying around as extras only... they need to be USED!!!
But the bottom line is that tubes DO MAKE A HUGE DIFFERENCE. After extensive testing, this is what I've come up with for different tubes:
Chinese (Groove Tubes 12AX7C, Ruby) - more gain, but the tone is VERY fizzy, almost like a fuzz box, and not like warm saturated overdrive. This might be your thing, but its not mine, and I don't like them. They DO have a noticeable increase in gain over other tubes, but they sound fizzy to me, and I don't like it. Brighter high end, and decent bottom end, not as flabby as Russians but nowhere near the tight crispness of JJ's
Russian (Electro Harmonix, GT 12AX7R) - less gain, but VERY much more pleasing than Chinese tubes; the tone is real overdrive, none of that fizzy hissy-ness. They are a little bit darker than the Chinese tubes, though; they aren't quite as bright, and the bottom end is really flabby and spongey. Would do well for anyone needing a cheap, quick replacement.
Sovtek - this is interesting because Sovtek is a Russian tube, but I liked it A LOT better than the EH and GT Russian tubes. Before i got my tung-sols, i'd been using this in V2 because it seemed to have slightly more gain than EH, and the bottom end was a little bit tighter and had a more pronounced mid-range. Still has the spongey-ness of Russian tubes, but it was better than the EH. Unfortunately, the label has all but completely worn off, so I can't tell you which model Sovtek it was; ive had it for a long, long time now.
JJ - THIS is what I'm talkin about!!! SUPER tight bottom end, and i mean SUPER TIGHT. I couldn't believe my ears when i first popped this in after having an EH in V1. There is the noticeable SLIGHT decrease in gain vs. the Chinese tubes, but omg is the tone worth it. Crisp is the only word I can think of thats appropriate; palm mutes are fucking TIGHT and chunky, no loose flabbiness here ANYWHERE. They have a totally unique plate structure, and feel VERY sturdy and reliable. A fairly bright tube, not as dark as EH, but not super bright like Chinese tubes. This is my favorite for V1 now.
Tung-Sol - Comparable to JJ, but with the spongey flabby bottom end of Russian/EH tubes. However, it is better than EH tubes: not as loose as EH, but not as tight as JJ. It all depends on what kind of sound you're going for; these are a very Russian sounding tube in that respect, but are fairly bright like the JJ, but HOLY FUCK is this thing full of glorious glowing overtones that I've not heard in ANY other brand of tube. Something these guys do differently makes a huge difference....
So thats that. For the testing, I was using a BC Rich Ironbird with a Seymour Duncan Invader bridge pickup, with GHS 10.5's tuned to Eb and running a Monster Pro-Link 12 ft cable directly into my Carvin Bel-Air 50 watt 2x12 w/ Celestion Vintage 30's with nothing in the effects loop. However, I discovered the over-tone thing while playing my new Jackson Warror also with GHS 10.5's and tuned to Eb; this guitar also has an "Invader" pickup, but its "Duncan Designed". The tone is pretty much exactly the same though; the only difference I've been able to discern is that its more prone to feedback because the pickup isn't sealed; you can see the wound copper wire inside, because it doesn't have that piece of cloth or whatever going around the outside like most other pickups do.
I hope this is useful to you guys. I figure you all here are discerning-enough listeners and obsessed with tone just as much as I am to be able to tell the difference when you play with different brands of tubes and would appreciate this knowledge.
Feel free to PM me with any questions or anything, if you want me to test out different tube arrangements to report back with.
Okay, I'd ordered a bunch of tubes off ebay for when my 6260 came in; it was a sick package deal of 4 JJ 6L6 tubes, and 6 Tung-Sol 12ax7's.
Now, I was kinda disappointed to find out when I got the Tung-Sol's that they are made in Russia, and have *almost* the same plate design/internal structure as Electro Harmonix tubes, because I just don't prefer the sound of Russian tubes.
But after experimenting on my Carvin Bel-Air 2x12 50 watt combo (2 EL84 power tubes, 5 12ax7 preamp tubes) I just discovered something WONDERFUL.
I'd already settled on my preference of a JJ 12ax7 in V1 for the main distortion tone-shaper, but I was messing around seeing where the Tung-Sol's sounded good in conjunction with that, and seeing how they sounded in V1 themselves. I didn't like them in V1 because Russian tubes have this like, spongy loose bottom end (listen to the very first Divine Empire album, its that sound) and the JJ's have this absolutely tight crispness to them. Plate structure DOES MAKE A DIFFERENCE!!!
Anyway, I finally gave up really caring, and ended up leaving in the last tube configuration I tried out so that I could just concentrate on practicing/writing for a while.
This combination was:
V1 - JJ
V2 - Tung-sol
V3 - umm... a Chinese Groove Tube i think but v3 is the clean channel
V4 - I think a Russian Grooves Tube, or an Electro Harmonix, but v4 is reverb
V5 - Tung-sol balanced output because V5 is the phase-inverter
So, I had my main overdrive tone of the JJ with a slight twist because half of V2 is for clean, the other half for overdrive. I was practicing shit on the G and D strings, doing some palm-muted scale runs, and then all of a sudden I heard something......
I kept messing around, with different palm muting intensity/level, and then I heard it again: It was this CHORUS SOUND!!!
HOLY FUCKING SHIT!!! HOLY OVER-TONES!!!!!!!!!
I couldn't fucking believe it. I'd NEVER, EVER EVER EVER heard that from a tube amp before. I fucking could not believe it. It's unreal; if you palm mute a certain way that lets the string vibrate, but not ring out alone, HOLY SHIT its like I just turned on a CHORUS PEDAL!!!!
I swear to god; I'm gonna get a recording up of it within the next few days so I can show this to you guys. I'd read that a lot of pro metal players use Tung-Sol tubes in their amps, so thats why I got them, and I'd thought they had this unique plate structure that I SWORE I saw, with 4 independently-enclosed cathodes or whatever, as opposed to the 2 big enclosed plate things, so thats why I got them in the first place.
But omfg guys, I swear to god... I don't know if this is something everyone else knows about and I'm just an ignorant tube afficionado, but wow.
Like, I'm dead fucking serious. It works best on the G and D strings for whatever reason, but you can get it a little on the A and low E too; its all in the amount of palm-muting you used. and I noticed it was most pronounced when doing like 8th note runs, or at least thats when that sound had the most impact and was the most noticeable.
But I just couldn't believe it.... I saw there thinking "Wow, so THIS is what great tubes sound like"
At first I was just like "okay, they're almost exactly like Electro Harmonix tubes, so why do they cost like $16 each at stores..." but now I get why. Absolutely incredible. It still has that spongy bottom end to it, but I know I can tighten that up with my EQ pedal or something when I put them in my Bugera.
But anyway... i've got 2 in my Carvin right now, and I'll probably use 2 in my Bugera, depending on what it sounds like, but I'm gonna get another balanced JJ tube for my Carvin so that I can have that other Tung-sol tube free for use elsewhere. The JJ tube I have in V1 right now is balanced for phase inverter use, so that might be why its tone is way better than all of my other GT and EH tubes i'd been using.
So, if anybody wants to try one or two..... I'm gonna have extras. Tung-sol tubes shouldn't be kept laying around as extras only... they need to be USED!!!
But the bottom line is that tubes DO MAKE A HUGE DIFFERENCE. After extensive testing, this is what I've come up with for different tubes:
Chinese (Groove Tubes 12AX7C, Ruby) - more gain, but the tone is VERY fizzy, almost like a fuzz box, and not like warm saturated overdrive. This might be your thing, but its not mine, and I don't like them. They DO have a noticeable increase in gain over other tubes, but they sound fizzy to me, and I don't like it. Brighter high end, and decent bottom end, not as flabby as Russians but nowhere near the tight crispness of JJ's
Russian (Electro Harmonix, GT 12AX7R) - less gain, but VERY much more pleasing than Chinese tubes; the tone is real overdrive, none of that fizzy hissy-ness. They are a little bit darker than the Chinese tubes, though; they aren't quite as bright, and the bottom end is really flabby and spongey. Would do well for anyone needing a cheap, quick replacement.
Sovtek - this is interesting because Sovtek is a Russian tube, but I liked it A LOT better than the EH and GT Russian tubes. Before i got my tung-sols, i'd been using this in V2 because it seemed to have slightly more gain than EH, and the bottom end was a little bit tighter and had a more pronounced mid-range. Still has the spongey-ness of Russian tubes, but it was better than the EH. Unfortunately, the label has all but completely worn off, so I can't tell you which model Sovtek it was; ive had it for a long, long time now.
JJ - THIS is what I'm talkin about!!! SUPER tight bottom end, and i mean SUPER TIGHT. I couldn't believe my ears when i first popped this in after having an EH in V1. There is the noticeable SLIGHT decrease in gain vs. the Chinese tubes, but omg is the tone worth it. Crisp is the only word I can think of thats appropriate; palm mutes are fucking TIGHT and chunky, no loose flabbiness here ANYWHERE. They have a totally unique plate structure, and feel VERY sturdy and reliable. A fairly bright tube, not as dark as EH, but not super bright like Chinese tubes. This is my favorite for V1 now.
Tung-Sol - Comparable to JJ, but with the spongey flabby bottom end of Russian/EH tubes. However, it is better than EH tubes: not as loose as EH, but not as tight as JJ. It all depends on what kind of sound you're going for; these are a very Russian sounding tube in that respect, but are fairly bright like the JJ, but HOLY FUCK is this thing full of glorious glowing overtones that I've not heard in ANY other brand of tube. Something these guys do differently makes a huge difference....
So thats that. For the testing, I was using a BC Rich Ironbird with a Seymour Duncan Invader bridge pickup, with GHS 10.5's tuned to Eb and running a Monster Pro-Link 12 ft cable directly into my Carvin Bel-Air 50 watt 2x12 w/ Celestion Vintage 30's with nothing in the effects loop. However, I discovered the over-tone thing while playing my new Jackson Warror also with GHS 10.5's and tuned to Eb; this guitar also has an "Invader" pickup, but its "Duncan Designed". The tone is pretty much exactly the same though; the only difference I've been able to discern is that its more prone to feedback because the pickup isn't sealed; you can see the wound copper wire inside, because it doesn't have that piece of cloth or whatever going around the outside like most other pickups do.
I hope this is useful to you guys. I figure you all here are discerning-enough listeners and obsessed with tone just as much as I am to be able to tell the difference when you play with different brands of tubes and would appreciate this knowledge.
Feel free to PM me with any questions or anything, if you want me to test out different tube arrangements to report back with.
Still not convinced tubes make anything more than the slightest of differences, unless your going from shit to great.
