How do you guys go about getting snarehits on a consistent volume...

[Black neon bob]

Im always struggling with this a bit... sure, with EZ or DFHS i can get it done, but that's because the samples are allready at a steady volume level... however, real drums, real drummers and lot's of hits that get lost a bit here and there... how do you guys solve this? especially if you have bleed from the copper/OH's coming through in the snare mic?

I ask about the snare, but i might as well ask how you people do it for bass? OH's? what is your choice of plugin and how do you approach this?

 

[Metaltastic]

Well to beat anyone else who might want to to the punch, I'll be totally unhelpful and say compression. Now if you're talking about getting rid of bleed, I'm sure there's some sidechaining hooha that I'm not privy to that could help, but when it comes to simple volume leveling, compression is the easy answer (and I'm sure you know that, of course, so I'm glad we got that out of the way! )

 

[Black neon bob]

Yeah, compression is one way to go... but the problem im having now is.. if i sidechain or gate the snare track, i lose a lot of attack.. sure, the high end sizzle is gone from the OH's bleeding through the snare mic, but it lacks punch now as well because of the gating... and if i gate it just a little and compress everything from here on, the OH bleed gets even louder from this point on and is just really annoying the listener.

I should probably just post a clip as well.. im not sure if the band is up for it though, shall ask them for permission first.

Cheer btw Marcus!

 

[Metaltastic]

Ooh, well one thing I think would help with losing the attack is finding some way to trigger the gate opening a split-second before the hit comes in - maybe duplicating the snare track, sliding it back a little bit, muting it, then sidechaining the gate from THAT so it's open in time for the attack of the actual snare to come through (does sidechaining work when the source is muted? That'd be a deal breaker if not...)

 

[paladin shredder]

you may already know about most of this stuff, but these are the steps i usually take when mixing real drums.

compression will help tame the dynamics, a noise gate should take care of the bleed from other instruments, and you might be able to eq out some of the offending frequencies in tracks where they are unwanted (hi pass, low pass). i've even used a de-esser on the snare to help minimize hihat bleed. the order of these effects in the chain is quite important. i usually do this:

1: gate (cut out the unwanted sound first)
2: eq (cut out the offending frequencies)
3: de-esser/multiband compressor (not always needed)
4: compression (tame those dynamics)

if that doesn't help, there some more complicated processes you could try like side-chaining and/or parallel compression. i'm not expert on these topics but you could research them. if none of that works, i would see if making samples of the kit is possible (if you like the way the kit sounds). if you find a lone hit on a particular drum, you could gate, compress, process it to taste and blend it in with the original recorded signal. the plus side to this is that it will allow you more attack and volume with virtually no bleed.

edit: looks like i took to long to type this up!

 

[vespiz]

I've also done volume automation to bring up individual hits. Takes some time to do, but combined with other stuff (comp, eq etc) it does the job. Just be carefull not to ruin the dynamics of the song, ie. if there's a part where the snare is supposed to play softer, don't bring it up

 

[ExecutiveRob]

I've had this same problem before but even parrallel comp, manual automation, EQ won't even make it punch through...

In these cases, it may be because the drummer hit the skin in a slightly different place during tracking, where the snare is naturally less prominent. So I often find the only way to get it to cut through is to copy and paste a snare hit!

So I think I'm saying for next time you're tracking drums, explain to the drummer about what's the best way to play for a recording. If you get stuff right at the tracking stage, mixing's a breeze!

Good luck.

 

[DestroyTheColossus]

Another thing you could do is take samples of the snare drum while your recording and trigger the snare drum hits you want to be even. You can cut back and forth between triggered hits on basic beats and recorded tracks on the fills if you process them the same. That way you get a more even volume without bleed on the hard hits, and the dynamic variation between hits on fills.

 

[ahjteam]

I have to be frank and say that I usually just a limiter on the end of the snare bus. L2 or similiar. But it usually only cuts like 0-3dB

 

[Seizure.]

I struggle with this alot.
I use the reagate alot for some "parallel gating" (if that exists at all..) the reagate is perfect for that.
Just gate it till you only hear the stick attack only and mix that in with the original.
Then sometimes alittle bit of transxwide (more snares setting tweaked..)
And then bags of compression + automation.

Drummers suck!

 

[Exocaster]

In these cases, it may be because the drummer hit the skin in a slightly different place during tracking, where the snare is naturally less prominent. So I often find the only way to get it to cut through is to copy and paste a snare hit!

I'll confess to having done this with many a duff snare hit. This is somewhere I've found reinforcing the snare with a sample helps as well.

 

[beyond dead]

kicking the drummers ass, + expander followed by another xpander, followed by eq, followed by compression, followed by a limiter.
or tapping on a keyboard lol

or when i play drums:

being a loser with no life who is way too hard on himself and never completely happy with anything i do + expander followed by another xpander, followed by eq, followed by compression, followed by a limiter.

 

[Uladyne]

Dude, I think I just came up with an idea to solve this problem forever! We need someone with a brain to work out the details, but it could be a little trigger or triggers placed on the hats and other offending cymbals, and also a trigger on the snare, which would be connected to a little shock module of sorts, with little electrodes connected to the drummers nipples. Whenever there is a certain (tweakable) volume range between the cymbals and snare hits, the little box zaps the drummer reminding him to play his fucking drums right! After 3 or 4 takes he should be cured of his desire to mash the shit out of his hats and tap on the snare! Yea, I'm just joking. :Smokin:

 

[greyskull]

i hate to throw a gearslutz style answer into the mix here.... but other than sample replacement/slamming the shit out of it....
getting the drummer to play more consistently is the best way

 

[Metaltastic]

I wouldn't call that a Gearslutz-style answer - that would be if you said "well, clearly the only solution is to invest in this $4000 Universal Audio Interrossiter, you impoverished n00b" (props to anyone who knows what an interrossiter is )

 

[Glenn Fricker]

Question the drummer's manhood. Seriously.


Something like, "I thought you metal guys were tough... who's this little girl behind the drums right now? Dude, Karen Carpenter hit harder than that & she died of anorexia... what's your excuse? You some kind of pussy?"

Works like a charm.

 

[abyssofdreams]

Good tips but as far as I see it... drums are already recorded, so no going back here possible?
The way I do it currently is to look at the snare track, cut out some decent hits that are hopefully without too much hat/OH bleed and copy/paste these hits to the ones that don't cut as much. Sometimes I also take these cut-outs, put them on an extra track, eq and compress them to hell and back and mix em underneath, e.g. plus automating this track to the ups and downs of the song...

 

[PhilR]

If the music demands it but the player can't deliver then: triggers.

Rest of the time I accept that real instruments aren't supposed to sound like machines.

 

[ahjteam]

I wouldn't call that a Gearslutz-style answer - that would be if you said "well, clearly the only solution is to invest in this $4000 Universal Audio Interrossiter, you impoverished n00b" (props to anyone who knows what an interrossiter is )

This Island Earth

 

[Ermz]

Whole different beast to processing samplers, eh Bob?

You have to get into the habit of automating the hits, making sure each triggers properly etc. If it's a particularly inconsistent drummer then as long as you trigger some samples with a high blend and very low 'dynamics' setting, you should be okay. Just make sure the hits are triggering correctly (automate the sensitivity and resolution). Drumagog has a tendency to flam during one pass, but not during the next for whatever ridiculous reason.