How do you prefer to quad track with 2 guitarists?

[H-evolve]

Was wondering what is your opinion/approach when you have 2 guitar players, playing the same part/riff at a moment of a song (there is no harmony being played), and you want to quad track.

Do you ask for 1 of them to play the 4 takes? Or 2 per player? From my small experience, having 2 takes per guitar player is somewhat closer to reality, makes it probably more authentic, but I find it a bit more difficult to time the 4 tracks perfectly. The fact that 2 separate guys played the same part necessarily has some differences in them, and they will always remain there, no matter how tight each guy's technique is.

Unless you edit like crazy (which I don't like), I don't think they will ever sound in perfect timing.

Therefore, I still can't decide how to proceed. I see goods and bads in both methods. So I was wondering what you guys do?

 

[AntonioPetrole]

If it comes to tight metal production (like most metal aka not something like black metal or doom metal) it's best to have 1 guitarist track all the rhythm guitar parts. It'll be much tighter and sound more consistent. The issue arises when the guitarist who isn't tracking is mad/feels bad since he isn't actually recording on the record, but that's the way she goes

 

[Phil_ocean]

I agree with Antonio, usually an allocation of the guitar parts helps to satisfy the 2 guitarists. Like 1 guitarist handles the rhythm parts and the other the leads/solos. There are situations though, where the playing style of the 2 guitarists matches and then I think it's a lot better to record both on the rhythms as it is an accurate representation of the band playing live. Usually the method Antonio suggested is the faster/tighter though

 

[nezvers]

I'm for 2 tracks for each, because my approach is enhanced dual tracking - each guitarist on their sides (hard panned all 4) and second pair is put a bit lower (5-20db) depending on what is played. I like it WAY better than classic 75% panning (less blurred). On open chords real killer.

I like to have each guitarist influence (if they are good players) and difference in tone, but not further than guitar.

 

[Pxz]

Yep all the above. Sometimes it will be hard to make a "younger" or less experienced band to understand why you are only choosing to record one guitar player. I found that bands with recording experience never have problems with decisions like this.

 

[bryan_kilco]

It's tough enough to get a single player to track 4 times tightly enough, let alone 2 separate players. I recorded my own band a while back and our other guitarist got a bit butthurt when I recommended that I track most of the parts. I mean, I guess I can understand to a point - dude wants to be on the album......but fuck, it'd have taken 3 times as long to track everything.

I'm all for the tightest player tracking most of the stuff. But then again, I've never had the luxury have having 2 super tight players to record.

 

[H-evolve]

Well, we have tried recording one of our simplest song with me doing 2 tracks and the other guy doing the next 2. When we just play them in pairs, separately (muting my pair and listening to his, and vice versa), everything is fine. When we put all 4 together, it sounds like shit all of a sudden. There is a reverb effect at some spots, the guitars suddenly become freaking overwhelming (even at relatively low volumes). I have tried my best to edit and what not (I'm not very good at editing and I don't have the patience), I can't make it sound good.

So ya... I've started planting the idea that it would be best to have only one guy record a complete song. We'll see. He did not really reply to my suggestion.

At least, at a minimum, I told him that, if he plays the rythm on a song, he should do all 4 tracks, while I take care only of my lead stuff. We'll see if he buys that.

 

[Phil_ocean]

Were you listening to the already recorded guitars while you were recording the other guys guitars? I think you can instantly spot any weird things happening.

 

[H-evolve]

Were you listening to the already recorded guitars while you were recording the other guys guitars? I think you can instantly spot any weird things happening.

Maybe I don't undertsand your question well, but each track was recorded using the metronome, with the other tracks muted. After all 4 were recorded, we listened to my 2 tracks together (panned left right 100%) and everything was pretty much OK. Then we muted my 2 tracks and did the exact same thing with his 2 tracks. Everything was OK. Then we turned on all 4 tracks, panned mine 100% left-right, his around 90% left-right, reduced the volume of his by maybe -3 to -4 dB. Pushed Play. Sounded quite bad. Instant Deception.

EDIT : Also, mine were recorded on ENGL Invader with ENGL XXL Cab. His were recorded with Mesa Dual Rec with Mesa OS cab. Both with SM57. I'm saying this, though I really think it's a tightness issue and not a general tone issue (though for sure how tone should improve, it's not great either).

 

[Phil_ocean]

Yea that was my question, I think its better to listen along with the other guitars during the check of each recorded guitar part. Just to make what i mean clear, track the guitar part with the metronome (or drums, whatever suits him) and when you check the recorded guitar part for any mistakes, unmute all the other guitar tracks and play it together (pan them too if you like) because that is how the listener will hear at the end. I just think is better to do this while you are recording each track and not when all guitars are finished, because you will be both tired by then and noone would wish to do it this again at that point

 

[H-evolve]

Yea that was my question, I think its better to listen along with the other guitars during the check of each recorded guitar part. Just to make what i mean clear, track the guitar part with the metronome (or drums, whatever suits him) and when you check the recorded guitar part for any mistakes, unmute all the other guitar tracks and play it together (pan them too if you like) because that is how the listener will hear at the end. I just think is better to do this while you are recording each track and not when all guitars are finished, because you will be both tired by then and noone would wish to do it this again at that point

We tried your suggestion last weekend. It was a drastic improvement, however still not perfect. And the thing is, I think it needs to be almost perfect, whenever you quad track. I'll post a an example tonight, you'll see what I mean.

I'm not much for the "I do everything and you just sit and wait". There are songs in my band where I am more the lead and others where I do mostly the rythm. So, my intention was that I quad track the rythms whenever it's my actual part. If I am the lead, then the other guitarist records the quad rytms. Simple as that.

However, as people pointed out, it isn't easy to explain and have someone accept that concept.

 

[Phil_ocean]

We tried your suggestion last weekend. It was a drastic improvement, however still not perfect. And the thing is, I think it needs to be almost perfect, whenever you quad track. I'll post a an example tonight, you'll see what I mean.

I'm not much for the "I do everything and you just sit and wait". There are songs in my band where I am more the lead and others where I do mostly the rythm. So, my intention was that I quad track the rythms whenever it's my actual part. If I am the lead, then the other guitarist records the quad rytms. Simple as that.

However, as people pointed out, it isn't easy to explain and have someone accept that concept.

Hmmm, If that sounds good to your band then its totally fine, but I believe that recording a song should represent how the band is playing live, so it may sound a little weird to have one person record all the rythms in one track and then another person to do all the rythyms in another song. You can always try it though experimentally and check how it sounds, it may sound weird but "good weird" if you know what I mean Finally, I think that is good to not get too obsessed to get them tight as fuck, listen how it sounds as a whole without focusing so much on the tightness, posting a clip would really help as you said

 

[H-evolve]

Hmmm, If that sounds good to your band then its totally fine, but I believe that recording a song should represent how the band is playing live, so it may sound a little weird to have one person record all the rythms in one track and then another person to do all the rythyms in another song. You can always try it though experimentally and check how it sounds, it may sound weird but "good weird" if you know what I mean Finally, I think that is good to not get too obsessed to get them tight as fuck, listen how it sounds as a whole without focusing so much on the tightness, posting a clip would really help as you said

You probably have a point. My friend doesn't like my suggestion to split the work anyway... and I don't feel like arguing about it.

We'll just go with what we did, that is: playing it exactly like what we'd do live. Makes it a shit ton harder for quad tracking, but I'll post our latest test. It is our first mix ever with micing our cabs. So I find it extremely difficult to make it work, and perhaps I'm assuming what I don't like comes from our imperfect quad tracking, but I could be wrong.

 

[Phil_ocean]

You probably have a point. My friend doesn't like my suggestion to split the work anyway... and I don't feel like arguing about it.

We'll just go with what we did, that is: playing it exactly like what we'd do live. Makes it a shit ton harder for quad tracking, but I'll post our latest test. It is our first mix ever with micing our cabs. So I find it extremely difficult to make it work, and perhaps I'm assuming what I don't like comes from our imperfect quad tracking, but I could be wrong.

If you have enough time available (and more importantly if you have the will to do it) you can suggest him, after finishing tracking as you do live, to do it the way you posted above. Just do it in 2 tracks for pure experimentation.

 

[H-evolve]

If you have enough time available (and more importantly if you have the will to do it) you can suggest him, after finishing tracking as you do live, to do it the way you posted above. Just do it in 2 tracks for pure experimentation.

I posted what we have done so far in the Practice Room thread. Figure I'd ask for an opinion "In General". You can listen to multiple files I posted and maybe hear what I mean about that possibly not tight enough quad tracking at the beginning of the song (the rest of the recorded rythm riffs are still quad, but only played by 1 guy).

 

[TRUIE]

Then we turned on all 4 tracks, panned mine 100% left-right, his around 90% left-right, reduced the volume of his by maybe -3 to -4 dB. Pushed Play. Sounded quite bad. Instant Deception.

Why not just pan your parts L100 for the main one, and L80-90 for the corresponding double (you can also lower this one by some dBs).
And do the same for the other guitarist parts on the other side (R100 and R80-90).
You'll get a much better stereo spread / separation like this, at least you should try.

Also, quadtracking is totally a production choice and you have to use it on purpose.
It's amazing to thicken guitar parts, but you'll loose something on precision too.
So use it when the song/genre/parts call for it ; and if you're not sure about what you're doing, going with dual tracking will be totally fine anyway.

 

[H-evolve]

Why not just pan your parts L100 for the main one, and L80-90 for the corresponding double (you can also lower this one by some dBs).
And do the same for the other guitarist parts on the other side (R100 and R80-90).
You'll get a much better stereo spread / separation like this, at least you should try.

Also, quadtracking is totally a production choice and you have to use it on purpose.
It's amazing to thicken guitar parts, but you'll loose something on precision too.
So use it when the song/genre/parts call for it ; and if you're not sure about what you're doing, going with dual tracking will be totally fine anyway.

Thanks for your advice.

Ya we had that discussion on the possibility to switch to dual tracking. Our attempt so far has been on a fairly easy to play song. We decided at first to go with quad in order to, as you pointed out, to thicken the guitars. Tones I like on different pro albums have been, from what I know, quad tracked, hence our decision.

But, if it becomes too much work (after all we're just making a demo), we'll probably go to dual tracking. Especially that in almost every song, there is a second guitar playing a harmony in a higher register.