The shit of quad track

[Nuno Filipe]

Hey! Lately I have noticed that quad track duplicate the phase problems. Despite being a pain in the ass to record a tight performance still brings nasty phase issues and I am tight enough to do quad track. Recording guitars and search for problems to invert the phase at certain places it´s a real shit. I might consider the double tracking just for having less headaches. What you guys think about this?

 

[Damian B]

Are you using multiple mics or amps?

 

[TheDude]

1 mic, 4 takes. No phase issues.

 

[Damian B]

1 mic, 4 takes. No phase issues.

Exactly, you shouldn't run into phase issues if you're using one mic with good placement.

 

[if6was9]

Yeah thats not phasing, thats the difference in tuning/tightness. Bending notes slightly off each time will sound like that.

You can't get phase issues from different takes, its caused by the same sound arriving at different mics at different times for THE SAME take.

 

[gabriel g.]

It also becomes very phasy sounding when you pan the guitars strange: Try this

Guitar 1 a 100 L
Guitar 1 b 75 R (-3dB)
Guitar 2 a 100 R
Guitar 2 b 75 L (-3dB)

I use this always with 2 mics per take (421 or e609 on axis and sm57 off axis on he same speaker)

No strange phasing!!!

 

[Erkan]

Man, quad tracking takes too fucking long, I'm too impatient! Dual track is the shit!

 

[Metaltastic]

Man, quad tracking takes too fucking long, I'm too impatient! Dual track is the shit!

I'm with this lesbian

 

[AEL89]

I'm with this lesbian

haha!

It depends for me. Sometimes in a chorus I'll drop into quad-track, sometimes not if there's lead through the middle anyway. Totally depends. If the guitarist is down-picking like hetfield it would be rude not to quad track. But as far as this phase thing goes... I really don't know if you're using just one mic. The only thing I could suggest is to check it out in mono or reverse the phase on some of the tracks.

 

[Nuno Filipe]

Maybe I have not explained myself very well, I record four DI´s and then made the virtual reamping with 8505 and all that shit. It always will have some points of cancelation between the signals, because two takes are 2 diferent signals, and sometimes at some point the 2 waveforms will be like this:

Ok this is not a major issue because the phase cancelation is not permanent but now think what will happen with quad track, the possibilities of phase cancelation doubles even with tight performance. And is this that annoys me.

 

[JBroll]

None of your tracks are going to be that regular. You will have phase cancellations with any combined signals, but none that drastic.

*EVERYTHING* in the mix is going to somehow have phase cancellation with *EVERYTHING ELSE* and you just have to live with it.

Jeff

 

[Rex Rocker]

I like quad-tracking.

 

[MetalJonesy]

*EVERYTHING* in the mix is going to somehow have phase cancellation with *EVERYTHING ELSE* and you just have to live with it.

Jeff

+1

Thats why double tracked guitars work rather than just doubling a take, due to the phase cancellations. these phase differences are what opens up the guitars and make them wide in a mix and really hit ya!

i prefer just double tracked material, but i like to have quad stuff if possible, just for incase the song/mix calls for it

 

[Tommy Gun]

I always have the guitars quad-tracked, but sometimes drop the 3rd/4th tracks during faster riffs. Quite often, I'll even add 5th/6th tracks of nothing but overdubs of things like artificial harmonics or pick-slides, etc.

 

[Nuno Filipe]

None of your tracks are going to be that regular. You will have phase cancellations with any combined signals, but none that drastic.

*EVERYTHING* in the mix is going to somehow have phase cancellation with *EVERYTHING ELSE* and you just have to live with it.

Jeff

I understand that but quad track make phase cancellation more hardcore and sometimes it is already noticeable. Maybe I am being too paranoid about this.

 

[gabriel g.]

No it should not, if you are panning "right".....

Maybe you use two different power connections and one isn´t in phase with the other....

 

[JBroll]

I understand that but quad track make phase cancellation more hardcore and sometimes it is already noticeable. Maybe I am being too paranoid about this.

More 'hardcore'? You'll have different phase cancellation, no doubt, but that's about it... you are being too paranoid about this - and you won't get much out of worrying about this without learning some of the mathematics behind it, so try that and put more behind your concerns than paranoia and guesswork.

Jeff

 

[Skinny Viking]

I'm with this lesbian

Hahahahaha!

 

[Nuno Filipe]

I will not bother you more about this!lol but tell me if any of you notice phase issues in this clip:
http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/1457645/tst.mp3

 

[JBroll]

Nothing wrong with questions, but don't lose perspective and forget that *everything* is obnoxious phasey bullshit and the only thing we can really do is go for obnoxious phasey bullshit that doesn't make us want to kill ourselves.

Jeff