How Machiavellian is Bush?

[speed]

Most of this is spot-on.
**With one exception: he was appointed president (the 1st time) by the Supreme Court. Yes, "democracy" indeed.

True; however, had the Supreme Court not have illegally taken Bush v. Gore, he eventually would have been elected by the Florida legislature. It would have taken alot longer of course.

I truly think 200 years from now, his election will be one of those turning points of history, like WWII, the Civil War, etc.

But I am really tired of hearing about his grades, and Harvard and Yale. Im tired of hearing how prestigious Harvard and Yale are too. I have friends that had spotless academic records and test scores, a plethora of sports and activities, and only a rower, and a really good safety (football) got into Harvard and Yale--and they had much lower scores and grades. It was the same with Princeton. I know one went to Columbia, and the other Rice.

 

[SoundMaster]

True; however, had the Supreme Court not have illegally taken Bush v. Gore, he eventually would have been elected by the Florida legislature. It would have taken alot longer of course.

I truly think 200 years from now, his election will be one of those turning points of history, like WWII, the Civil War, etc.

But I am really tired of hearing about his grades, and Harvard and Yale. Im tired of hearing how prestigious Harvard and Yale are too. I have friends that had spotless academic records and test scores, a plethora of sports and activities, and only a rower, and a really good safety (football) got into Harvard and Yale--and they had much lower scores and grades. It was the same with Princeton. I know one went to Columbia, and the other Rice.

As you've implied it's simply more proof of the American aristocracy which, oddly, many refuse to see.

 

[speed]

As you've implied it's simply more proof of the American aristocracy which, oddly, many refuse to see.

Yes, and whats worse, is our aristocracy is no longer that committed to culture; but rather, preserving their economic foundation. A similar thing happened in Britain not to long ago. But they've managed to maintain some culture. Donating o the arts so you can throw a party, but having no knowledge or interest in arts culture etc, is hardly a commitment.

 

[fah-q]

i don't know about the rest of my fellow americans. but the american people didnt elect a president so that he could fix someone elses problems,I agree with you totally. especially while wasting our tax dollars onit , which eh could be using to fix this country, which he's hardly doing. fuck bush, we had enough people we could kill off in this country before we go somewhere else to do it. now we are in debt crazy style and all because he wanted to fulfill daddy bush's wishes. That is a baseless accusation.actions speak louder than words , and bush can hardly talk. obviously he doesn't know what he's doing. if he believed in a war so goddam much ,he should have put in his own kids I don't believe his children enlisted.before sending thousands of other american families kids there. theyre like 21 right now right? Everyone that is over in Iraq, enlisted in the military. Did I miss the draft?

Have a nice day.

 

[fah-q]

Most of this is spot-on.
**With one exception: he was appointed president (the 1st time) by the Supreme Court. Yes, "democracy" indeed.

Turn the page. Bush won in 2000. I can't believe there are people out there that still have not gotten over it.
In regards to Bush academic prowess getting him into a good school. I don't disagree that his lineage helped him along. However, if you are going to toss him under the bus for it, be fair and toss John Kerry Heinz and Al "The earth has 10 years left!" Gore.

 

[fah-q]

i would hope so. but it wouldnt surprise me if he didnt. i heard he couldnt spell or write an essay or speech and other people have to write his stuff. he's also said alot of dumb things i've seen in videos. plus he used to snort coke, drink alcohol and smoke pot for years on a daily basis , and this is the only job he's ever kept in his life. he 'found jesus' like all the other alcoholics and then decided that god wanted him to be president. i think he could do better.

"I heard" "He used to" "He found god" -This is such a tired and old mantra.

 

[fah-q]

Yes, and whats worse, is our aristocracy is no longer that committed to culture; but rather, preserving their economic foundation. A similar thing happened in Britain not to long ago. But they've managed to maintain some culture. Donating o the arts so you can throw a party, but having no knowledge or interest in arts culture etc, is hardly a commitment.

Let me preface this by stating that I may be misreading your post or my interpretation may be out of context.
Above, you seem to be against aristocrats. However, in the below post, you seem pro-aristocracy.

Originally Posted by speed
Where are our cultured and intelligent aristocrats when we need them? This is a perfect time for an oligarcy! No...a perfect time for a philosopher king! Or is it just the next step towards inevitable communism? Hm...so many choices.
Am I reading this wrong or, are you playing both sides of the issues?

 

[SoundMaster]

Turn the page. Bush won in 2000. I can't believe there are people out there that still have not gotten over it.
In regards to Bush academic prowess getting him into a good school. I don't disagree that his lineage helped him along. However, if you are going to toss him under the bus for it, be fair and toss John Kerry Heinz and Al "The earth has 10 years left!" Gore.

Only a fool "turns the page" on the foundation of democracy. If that's your cup of tea (or, shall I say, cool-aid?), drink on.
It's less a case of Bush being the one appointed than it is that anyone was appointed at all.

Anyway, read on and you'll see that people here did, in fact, comment on Kerry, Bush, et al, and their aristocratic advantages.

 

[speed]

Let me preface this by stating that I may be misreading your post or my interpretation may be out of context.
Above, you seem to be against aristocrats. However, in the below post, you seem pro-aristocracy.

Originally Posted by speed
Where are our cultured and intelligent aristocrats when we need them? This is a perfect time for an oligarcy! No...a perfect time for a philosopher king! Or is it just the next step towards inevitable communism? Hm...so many choices.
Am I reading this wrong or, are you playing both sides of the issues?

That was a joke. I know republicans dont have a sense of humor, but come on, I included oligarchy with philosopher king and communism--surely you can infer the I wasnt being serious.

 

[fah-q]

That was a joke. I know republicans dont have a sense of humor, but come on, I included oligarchy with philosopher king and communism--surely you can infer the I wasnt being serious.

Sometimes, it is hard to tell when you are dealing with people who are trying so hard to qualify their intelligence.

 

[fah-q]

Only a fool "turns the page" on the foundation of democracy. If that's your cup of tea (or, shall I say, cool-aid?), drink on. Is that an Al Franken quote?
It's less a case of Bush being the one appointed than it is that anyone was appointed at all.

Anyway, read on and you'll see that people here did, in fact, comment on Kerry, Bush, et al, and their aristocratic advantages.

I didn't quote "people here", I quoted you.

Have a nice day Mr. Koresh.

 

[speed]

Sometimes, it is hard to tell when you are dealing with people who are trying so hard to qualify their intelligence.

Yes of course. Apologizers and followers of our great leader I find to be quite intelligent myself. You know if you werent such an ass, it would be nice to have a republican/American conservative post here.

 

[Frank the tank]

well if someone wants to prove me wrong then fine, go ahead and do so. there's nothing wrong with learning. except for that i know he's "found god" and couldn't do shit with his life from video interviews i've seen of him.

 

[SoundMaster]

I didn't quote "people here", I quoted you.

Have a nice day Mr. Koresh.

That was dumb.

 

[the alumnus]

i would say that bush has not heeded machiavelli. not just the prince, but also the discourses, which i would argue are more a true representation of old nick. for example, he does not heed machiavelli's advice on invasion (invasion of foreign lands only works through colonization). he also has not used the divide and conquer route, instead he galvanized his enemies and isolated his allies. we probably wouldn't be in such straights right now if he read the prince, or the discourses. hah.

 

[Norsemaiden]

i would say that bush has not heeded machiavelli. not just the prince, but also the discourses, which i would argue are more a true representation of old nick. for example, he does not heed machiavelli's advice on invasion (invasion of foreign lands only works through colonization). he also has not used the divide and conquer route, instead he galvanized his enemies and isolated his allies. we probably wouldn't be in such straights right now if he read the prince, or the discourses. hah.

You make good points. Machiavelli was really a saint compared to the neo cons and modern politicians in the west. As much as he advocated ruthlessness and lying, this was supposed to be in the national interest. Machiavelli was fiercely patriotic.

With Bush, etc, it is the apparant patriotism that is the primary manipulating lie! While appearing to behave with concern for the nation, our rulers are really only after self aggradisement and short term fixes to keep the voters happy at the expense of what is needed longterm. (That is oversimplified to avoid the whole issue of a more sinister motivation for their actions). They take the idea of cynically lying without conscience, but do not counter that with anything positive.

Yet, the main archetect of the neocons, Strauss, obviously absorbed much from Maciavelli and must have taken from his works anything that he could see to be of value to the neocon plans.

It is humourous to imagine the US colonising Iraq. What kind of Americans would be sent over to live there?! Americans are such a bunch of mixed up identities and ethnicities that they would surely fail to feel a blood tie to their population back in the US. The only exception to that might be if Bush colonised Iraq with so called "rednecks" perhaps. Of course I realise that the whole idea is ridiculous anyway!

 

[fah-q]

Yes of course. Apologizers and followers of our great leader I find to be quite intelligent myself. You know if you werent such an ass, it would be nice to have a republican/American conservative post here.

Outstanding and very telling response. Why would you formulate a response based on logic or reason when you can call people names. Typical liberal response.
Have a nice day.

 

[fah-q]

That was dumb.

Will you be calling my mother names next?

 

[SoundMaster]

Will you be calling my mother names next?

Hmmm, this is a rather interesting comment being that you, my good man, have displayed a tendency to resort to such nonsense.

(for interested readers, please refer to the "Mr Koresh" post just above this one).

Enjoy!

 

[speed]

Hmmm, this is a rather interesting comment being that you, my good man, have displayed a tendency to resort to such nonsense.

(for interested readers, please refer to the "Mr Koresh" post just above this one).

Enjoy!

Ive read over the thread, and it appears fah-q, is a follower of the Ann Coulter school of discourse and analysis. Fah-q's posts on this thread have all been curt, baiting, crude, and frankly not very funny. Had they been witty or in good spirits as almost everyone on this forum is one or another, it wouldnt be a problem.

But frankly as a guilty party (making the above comment, and one or two others) and moderator (with the power to close this thread), these insults and comebacks are getting rather old, and had they not involved me, would have resulted in the closing of this thread. Yet, I will leave that decision up to Derek, or others by not posting on this particular thread anymore.