How much should I charge. {with a catch!??!!}

I've been doing stuff with production for two years so I'm kinda not just getting into it although I know I have a lot to learn. And I'm not doubting holding a job with a degree, nobody ever said that. But I still want to know how I should run this shit correctly with the time I do have.
 
$100 for mixing an album is not ridiculous. It's a completely absurd and impossible equation that anyone who can grasp even the most basic forms of math should consider a bad joke.

$30 per song isn't a friend rate either. It's shooting yourself in the leg. Well, both legs. And in the face. And in the cock. Thrice.

Seriously, you're sixteen. You could grab a job at McDonald's and make five or ten times that hourly rate, and flippin' burgers while picking your nose and listening to Sepultura with your iPod isn't exactly a creative process where you take responsibility for a year or so of someone's personal, artistic effort.

Fuck I'm glad I picked up a second job. Things are bad here.
 
ShipwreckSoundWorks said:
I still want to know how I should run this shit correctly with the time I do have.
Click to expand...

1) Start a business. It includes a lot of legal shit and a bit of paperwork. To be honest, considering you're 16, I'm not sure if you can even do that, since you're not considered a grown-up. Pay your taxes. Pay for your software. Get an accountant. You'll soon realize what you need to charge to stay alive.

2) Work as a freelancer. Legal details vary according to your location. Talk with a tax and business advisor to get you started. Convince your clients it's worth it for them to deal with all the bureaucratic bullshit to hire you.

3) Do it the old way. Get a job. Get a studio internship you can do whenever you're not at work. Learn the fucking craft from a real pro, not from a bunch of bitter cunts on an internet forum (that's us) and embrace every chance you get to actually learn from a real professional. Work your way up the ladder from making coffee and cleaning turd spots from the studio toilets to being an assistant engineer, work your ass off, be a reliable and valuable part of the studio and earn your place as a paid engineer.
 
Its always good to have a Plan B. However, you should do always do what you want to do. You can make it happen if you really want it, and you put in enough hard work. Don't let anyone ever discourage you from being who you want to be.

There is that old say, or a variation of it at least; "Those who try to discourage another from their dreams, have given up on their own."

Do what you really want to do. Life is short, and tomorrow is promised to no one. If you want to produce records, then learn as much as you can. Being young, you can take advantage of not paying bills, read as much as you can, experiment as much as you can, and talk to as many people who are older than your or have been doing it for a long time. You'll learn allot from their mistakes if they are kind enough to share. Experiment with different styles of music as you can, because different styles utilize different techniques. Be diverse, and most important, be free. Never let doubt, your own or another's, get in the way of what you wish to accomplish. The industry has change, and is continuing to do so. Pay attention to the past, present, and future. Don't be afraid to take chances, especially if your life and health are not at stake. This one is important also; Stay away from hard drugs. Stay away from people who are on the hard drugs. Don't let things like this get in the way of what you truly love.

Thats all I got.
 
They key to longevity is diversification. It can be a second job unrelated to audio, or it can be something like running live sound at a local club to pay the bills when the studio game isn't lucrative enough.

I do my recording projects, work as an adjunct faculty member in the recording arts dept at a local college and am co-creator of a set of drum samples (shameless plug... www.facebook.com/roomsound). The point is, get multiple income streams so you can weather the storm when one thing gets slow. If you're smart/lucky you can get something related to engineering which will help with networking. Networking is key.
 
DavePiatek said:
They key to longevity is diversification. It can be a second job unrelated to audio, or it can be something like running live sound at a local club to pay the bills when the studio game isn't lucrative enough.

I do my recording projects, work as an adjunct faculty member in the recording arts dept at a local college and am co-creator of a set of drum samples (shameless plug... www.facebook.com/roomsound). The point is, get multiple income streams so you can weather the storm when one thing gets slow. If you're smart/lucky you can get something related to engineering which will help with networking. Networking is key.
Click to expand...

^ This is also wisdom.
 
I definitely plan on a second job trust me. This will eventually have to be a side-job I'm afraid. I really don't want it to be, because It's what I love to do.. But I guess that's the way it goes huh?
 
dude....you're 16, the first thing you need to do is LEARN HOW TO MIX! lol seriously though, this takes years, and unless you started when you're 12, I don't think you're there yet. You're better off spending your time learning an instrument while practicing mixing at the same time, you shouldn't be worried about starting a business just yet.
 
To be a good engineer - takes a long time - so its great you had started at a very young age - thats awesome - in a few years you will gain lots of experience and have the potential to get more work as time goes buy - also because you are starting young you have more freedom to do things without the need to pay the normal bills that others that are in older age then you might have ( family / kids / taxes / and other stuff that comes in life ).

There are so many ways to build your work strategy around how to rate your work and how much to charge .
Here is what i suggest - - test the waters - find a rate that is low enough so the clients can efford working with you - and at the same time - high enough for you to feel comfortable with what you are getting for the time and work you put into it - in the big picture you want to make some money off it - so you can invest in your studio and also make enough to pay the expenses - it can be everthing from going out with friends, buying food , investing , buying gear to saving money in the bank.

one way is to have a specific rate and another one that you aim for in a certain time when you feel comfirtable changin the price - it can be a year after or even less- if the clients can handle that great and if not you can always revert to the old price.

i know i didnt mention any prices or rates because i think its good to do some research ( inside and outside ) to see whats possible and whats not.

in general people give more respect when they pay more becuase they expect more - so when they feel they have invested alot they will expect alot
from you and from themselves - thats not a rule of thumb but its a common line of thought for a lot of clients.

I can recommed you a book that a good friend of mine Dave Hampton wrote it can help you get some perspective on things and has some good tips on how to handle the work and deal with the clients

http://www.davehampton.com/store/business-of-audio-engineering


Goodluck with everything - may the force be with you
 
jackbraglia said:
dude....you're 16, the first thing you need to do is LEARN HOW TO MIX! lol seriously though, this takes years, and unless you started when you're 12, I don't think you're there yet. You're better off spending your time learning an instrument while practicing mixing at the same time, you shouldn't be worried about starting a business just yet.
Click to expand...
Haha thanks, but I do practice. Constantly. And apparently it's not that awful considering it brings me a consistent flow of clients. It's all practice, but it's making me money at the same time. Is that a bad thing? I should have made this post more specific.
I already run a little mediocre business that makes me something like $200-$300 a week (assuming the business is good), but It's not like I have bills to worry about yet. Just gas. My mixes have improved immensely since only last year, and I wouldn't have been there without doing this. Me being 16 does not mean shit
But thank you. I'll keep that mind.
I started messing with it when I was 13, not 12.
 
MaorAppelbaumMastering said:
To be a good engineer - takes a long time - so its great you had started at a very young age - thats awesome - in a few years you will gain lots of experience and have the potential to get more work as time goes buy - also because you are starting young you have more freedom to do things without the need to pay the normal bills that others that are in older age then you might have ( family / kids / taxes / and other stuff that comes in life ).

There are so many ways to build your work strategy around how to rate your work and how much to charge .
Here is what i suggest - - test the waters - find a rate that is low enough so the clients can efford working with you - and at the same time - high enough for you to feel comfortable with what you are getting for the time and work you put into it - in the big picture you want to make some money off it - so you can invest in your studio and also make enough to pay the expenses - it can be everthing from going out with friends, buying food , investing , buying gear to saving money in the bank.

one way is to have a specific rate and another one that you aim for in a certain time when you feel comfirtable changin the price - it can be a year after or even less- if the clients can handle that great and if not you can always revert to the old price.

i know i didnt mention any prices or rates because i think its good to do some research ( inside and outside ) to see whats possible and whats not.

in general people give more respect when they pay more becuase they expect more - so when they feel they have invested alot they will expect alot
from you and from themselves - thats not a rule of thumb but its a common line of thought for a lot of clients.

I can recommed you a book that a good friend of mine Dave Hampton wrote it can help you get some perspective on things and has some good tips on how to handle the work and deal with the clients

http://www.davehampton.com/store/business-of-audio-engineering


Goodluck with everything - may the force be with you
Click to expand...
Thanks so much for the words man. I've noticed that with clients, especially about gaining respect if you're paying more. What a lot of people do around here is record shit mixes, but do it for free. Everyone here is sick of the local recording artists bullshit, so I like to think that everyone comes to me to escape that.
I've found a pretty good rate that doesn't blow the bank for anyone really, and it's still an hourly rate.
 
If you were to make a living on recording you'd need to charge AT LEAST 1000 Euro a week. A metal album takes approximately a week to mix if you work 8 hours a day. So 1000 Euro for an album is the minimum anyone should charge if they don't want to shoot the industry in its leg.

If you have work to do all the time and you charge 1000 Euro for a week, you get 4000 Euro as income for your company each month. Then you'll probably need to pay a rent for your studio, if it's really cheap lets say it's 400 Euros a month. Then you need to pay for maintenance, fixing stuff that gets broken, back ups etc, lets say 100 Euro a month. (I think I'm really understating how much everything costs here so this is about as cheap as you could possibly get away in a perfect world) Then you have 3500 Euros left after that.

Now you need to get payed aswell. In sweden if you have 3500 Euros in your company that you wanted to give to yourself as pay, you'd end up with 1750 Euros, wich is a really low wage but you could still survive on it.

And this is while not buying ANY new gear at all. So that's probably not going to happen.

So yeah, 1000 Euro for an album is incredibly cheap, but it's ok. It's what I aim to charge, and until that I have a steady income of 4000 Euro a month into my company I will have a "proper" job aswell. (Post production and Live sound. It pays the bills and it's related to audio, win-win)

EDIT: But I totally understand if you can't charge this much yet, but it's good to know how much you at least should be charging.
 
Your 16?? no offense but learn to record and make it sound good first.. If you got that then its a good start for pricing

I do 100 a song... its cheap my work is good .. Everyone around me make s3-4 song demos..

I shoot myself in the foot because i edit and i always convince them to click track.. So it ends up me making like 10 bucks hour :bah:
 
doclegion said:
Your 16?? no offense but learn to record and make it sound good first.. If you got that then its a good start for pricing

I do 100 a song... its cheap my work is good .. Everyone around me make s3-4 song demos..

I shoot myself in the foot because i edit and i always convince them to click track.. So it ends up me making like 10 bucks hour :bah:
Click to expand...
Yeah once again thanks bro. I've stated already that I already have this going. I've had it going for a while. And my mixes wouldn't be where they are if I hadn't. Isn't bringing in bands and making them sound good practice? Isn't production fucking practice? My mixes have come so far over the last year alone just by running this business. Cut it with the learn how to mix shit that's what this ENTIRE fucking process has been for me.
 
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