How to achieve a wide mix?

[Mashreef]

@plague_rider

Well the drums and the distorted guitar's actually

 

[plague_rider]

Live drums or programmed??
How are you panning these??

 

[Mashreef]

My live drums sounds okay big and wide

but my programmed drums sounds small and all in the centre

Im using the S.D 2.3 with the metal machine ezx

i used the stock panning!!!

 

[Melodeath]

Instead of using stereo plug ins on stereo sources, use multiple mono instead. Especially with compressors, the difference in sound on either side contributes to the perceived wideness.

If you use multi-mono compression for example, you're actually making the signal less stereo. However, you are shifting the center image every time there is gain reduction. Whether that sounds wider or not would be pretty subjective and dependent on the scenario and program material I would imagine

 

[Ermz]

Try nailing the basics. Often if you get your instrument balances, panning, compression and 'wet' FX right you'll have a mix that sounds quite wide without any trickery.

Beyond that, things that throw around the consistency of the image can help, like analogue compressors, unlinked compressors (use sparingly), console/tape saturation and (last resort) artificial stereo widening.

Also, beware of using different guitar tones per side. Sure, it can make your mix wider, but if you get a listener like me who can't handle mix asymmetry, then you'll make them want to murder you.

 

[Charles J]

Also, beware of using different guitar tones per side. Sure, it can make your mix wider, but if you get a listener like me who can't handle mix asymmetry, then you'll make them want to murder you.

+1 as always to everything you said Ermz, exactly how I go about it but a SPECIAL "I LOVE YOU" for finally putting into words how I feel about certain mixes and WHY I wanted to murder the engineer who mixed it, ahahaha....

I never thought of it as 'mix asymmetry' but that's the CORRECT and BEST term I've heard for it. I'm OBSESSIVELY ANAL about the symmetry of my mixes and anything that throws that out of whack just KILLS ME. It's like you said, I just can't HANDLE it..! haha

Always why I HATED a different amp on each side. For metal, anyhow... it works for indie and stuff but not hard rock/metal, IMO.

 

[Sethis]

Same, mix asymmetry is annoying to me as well. Unless it's very subtle. I think simple double tracked guitars are enough.

 

[mickrich]

I love different amps left and right.
As long as you pay attention when EQing the second amp it is usually great.
Different cab causes centre shifting for sure but different heads with the same cab is cool.
Was tracking today and used Mesa MK4 left and triple recto right through recto cab and it sounds good to me.
Here is the no EQ end of tracking mix for the band to check takes.
Any opinions on this re asymmetry?
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/2133088/Reap_Ruff.mp3

 

[egan.]

I think getting hung up on asymmetry b/c some people don't like it is like getting hung up on drum perspective b/c some people don't like it. If it works for the song, the band and you then do it.

 

[Chris Lucas]

I think I'd take a track of the same amp on each side eq'd slightly differently than two different amps. Mix asymmetry kills me too. Then again, drums that aren't panned drummers perspective bothers the shit out of me too, but I imagine its because I've played drums for years. In a metal mix, the drums are so in your face they sound like they're surrounding you, not like you're in front of the kit watching someone play, so it makes sense to me that they're panned like a drummer. I found that unlinked L1s doing just a TAD of limiting on the guitars can help a little too.

I agree with Ermz however, I'm by no means the best engineer, but I find as I practice and hone my skills I reach for less trickery and stick with the basics more.

 

[RedDog]

I'm one with the same rigs EQ'd differently on either side. Same filters on a bus, cutting off lows and super highs, but with key elements for either side such as less lows on whatever side I have the low toms panned to, all that jazz.

 

[Mashreef]

I'm one with the same rigs EQ'd differently on either side. Same filters on a bus, cutting off lows and super highs,

Im doing the same thing and it surely made my mix a quite wider than usual

 

[Mashreef]

Try nailing the basics. Often if you get your instrument balances, panning, compression and 'wet' FX right you'll have a mix that sounds quite wide without any trickery.

Beyond that, things that throw around the consistency of the image can help, like analogue compressors, unlinked compressors (use sparingly), console/tape saturation and (last resort) artificial stereo widening.

Also, beware of using different guitar tones per side. Sure, it can make your mix wider, but if you get a listener like me who can't handle mix asymmetry, then you'll make them want to murder you.

I know how it feels haha

 

[B36arin]

Also, beware of using different guitar tones per side. Sure, it can make your mix wider, but if you get a listener like me who can't handle mix asymmetry, then you'll make them want to murder you.

Yep! I've been doing a few productions lately with one track of 5150 and one track of Triple Recto on each side. The attack characteristics of both amps are different enough that I've really started to dislike how the stereo image sounds on palm mutes with the two of them.

On the album I'm currently working on I used a Rev F Dual Recto(profiled with the Kemper) for rhythm tones on both sides. I compared it with my go-to Triple Recto profile for the last couple of months, and after spending a few hours the Dual Recto tracks sounded so much wider that it's not even funny. Best stereo image I've got with guitars so far, let's see how it stacks up when I start mixing...

I'm not as big of a mixing expert as some of the guys here, but as Ermz said, it's about the basics. If you get the mix balanced and "airy" enough you won't have a problem making it sound wide.