i know how to use it but i dont know
how create a circle of 12 tones? sry im beginner
someone help me ehehe....
how create a circle of 12 tones? sry im beginner
someone help me ehehe....
how to create a circle of 12 tones? sry im beginner
- Thread starter astig_ng_tondo
- Start date
I'm not sure exactly how Ron makes them, whether he's putting down notes randomly or following a scale or 2 of some sort and laying them down, but I do it randomly- put the notes down in a circle (where the numbers on a clock would go) and then pick which groups of notes to work with.
Ron has a page describing the circle of 12 tones here :
The Circle Of 12 Tones
It works like a tone row then you can pick any sequence of 12 notes and build your structure. In this case the structure happens to be a clock. Here's an example, based upon tone row theory.
The prime order (P0) is your initial sequence, so here is P0:
D# C A# B G A F D F# C# E G#
Now build your clock :
D# 12:00
C 1:00
A# 2:00
B 3:00
G 4:00
A 5:00
F 6:00
D 7:00
F# 8:00
C# 9:00
E 10:00
G# 11:00
Now use the patterns such as playing notes every 2:00, repeat them, try to go around the circle without skipping notes, whatever you want. Hope that helps you out.
The Circle Of 12 Tones
It works like a tone row then you can pick any sequence of 12 notes and build your structure. In this case the structure happens to be a clock. Here's an example, based upon tone row theory.
The prime order (P0) is your initial sequence, so here is P0:
D# C A# B G A F D F# C# E G#
Now build your clock :
D# 12:00
C 1:00
A# 2:00
B 3:00
G 4:00
A 5:00
F 6:00
D 7:00
F# 8:00
C# 9:00
E 10:00
G# 11:00
Now use the patterns such as playing notes every 2:00, repeat them, try to go around the circle without skipping notes, whatever you want. Hope that helps you out.
So I think I got the hold of this tone row approach, here's what I have learned.
Lets start with a 12 tone scale (i'm using A# instead of Bb just for now).
C C# D D# E F F# G G# A A# B
0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11
Select 12 notes in any order, from what I have learned this is called Prime Zero (computers start a zero, why not this...)
1) Place numbers under each note in the 12 tone scale.
2) After you select your tone row, label the notes accordingly with their numbers.
G D# B A# G# A C E C# F F# D
7 3 11 10 8 9 0 4 1 5 6 2
Lets start with making an inversion out of this, called Inversion Zero (I0).
Here's the algorithm I used.
1) Place the first note from Prime Zero (P0) onto your new scale.
If this has already been done then use the last note you placed on
Inversion Zero as a starting point.
2) Look at Prime Zero, measure the distance between the first note in the scale and the next note. If this has already been done then measure the interval from the current note to the next.
3) Ask your self, is this an ascending or descending interval? If it is ascending, then the inversion will be descending; vise versa
Now starting at the current note count the exact same interval but in the opposing direction.
4) Go back to step 1 and repeat until all notes are used up, no notes should repeat.
Lets try it out!
Prime Zero :
G D# B A# G# A C E C# F F# D
7 3 11 10 8 9 0 4 1 5 6 2
Finding the first note...
Inversion Zero (starts with the first note in Prime Zero)
Step 1) G
Step 2) From G to D# is 4 half steps
Step 3) DESCENDING
Step 4) From G ASCENDING 4 half steps, G-G#-A-A#-B we have B.
This is our next note in the tone row, and it become the current not in Inversion Zero. Each dash is one half step
Step 1) Our current note in the inversion is B
Step 2) Look at Prime Zero, the second note is D#. From D# ASCENDING to B is 8 half steps (eight is enough, har har har)
Step 3) This is ASCENDING
Step 4) From B (in our inversion) DESCEND 8 half steps and we have D#
Step 1) Our current note in the inversion is D#
Step 2) Look at P0, the third note is B. From B to its next note A# is one half step.
Step 3) This is DESCENDING
Step 4) From D# in our inversion ASCEND up one half step to E.
Continue this until all twelve notes are completed. Take your time, I *thought* I had this down until I got half way through and my mind went into cruise control and I botched the whole thing.
Now the easy stuff, retrograde. Take Prime Zero and start at the end and work towards the front.
Retrograde of Prime Zero
D F# F C# E C A G# A# B D# G
Retrograde of Inversion Zero
C G# A C# A# D F F# E D# B G
Now throw these guys onto a clock.
C 12:00
G# 1:00
A
C#
A#
D
F
F#
E
D#
B
G 11:00
Do what you want from here. Like play all the triads. Or...Take time zones from your favorite states and play them. Look for triads and focus in on those. have fun
Something like 12/8 time, thats C and E on our clock, WHOA that's almost a C major triad. So what time is it? 12/8/11 time! Tell that to your drummer and duck behind your half stack!
Lets start with a 12 tone scale (i'm using A# instead of Bb just for now).
C C# D D# E F F# G G# A A# B
0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11
Select 12 notes in any order, from what I have learned this is called Prime Zero (computers start a zero, why not this...)
1) Place numbers under each note in the 12 tone scale.
2) After you select your tone row, label the notes accordingly with their numbers.
G D# B A# G# A C E C# F F# D
7 3 11 10 8 9 0 4 1 5 6 2
Lets start with making an inversion out of this, called Inversion Zero (I0).
Here's the algorithm I used.
1) Place the first note from Prime Zero (P0) onto your new scale.
If this has already been done then use the last note you placed on
Inversion Zero as a starting point.
2) Look at Prime Zero, measure the distance between the first note in the scale and the next note. If this has already been done then measure the interval from the current note to the next.
3) Ask your self, is this an ascending or descending interval? If it is ascending, then the inversion will be descending; vise versa
Now starting at the current note count the exact same interval but in the opposing direction.
4) Go back to step 1 and repeat until all notes are used up, no notes should repeat.
Lets try it out!
Prime Zero :
G D# B A# G# A C E C# F F# D
7 3 11 10 8 9 0 4 1 5 6 2
Finding the first note...
Inversion Zero (starts with the first note in Prime Zero)
Step 1) G
Step 2) From G to D# is 4 half steps
Step 3) DESCENDING
Step 4) From G ASCENDING 4 half steps, G-G#-A-A#-B we have B.
This is our next note in the tone row, and it become the current not in Inversion Zero. Each dash is one half step
Step 1) Our current note in the inversion is B
Step 2) Look at Prime Zero, the second note is D#. From D# ASCENDING to B is 8 half steps (eight is enough, har har har)
Step 3) This is ASCENDING
Step 4) From B (in our inversion) DESCEND 8 half steps and we have D#
Step 1) Our current note in the inversion is D#
Step 2) Look at P0, the third note is B. From B to its next note A# is one half step.
Step 3) This is DESCENDING
Step 4) From D# in our inversion ASCEND up one half step to E.
Continue this until all twelve notes are completed. Take your time, I *thought* I had this down until I got half way through and my mind went into cruise control and I botched the whole thing.
Now the easy stuff, retrograde. Take Prime Zero and start at the end and work towards the front.
Retrograde of Prime Zero
D F# F C# E C A G# A# B D# G
Retrograde of Inversion Zero
C G# A C# A# D F F# E D# B G
Now throw these guys onto a clock.
C 12:00
G# 1:00
A
C#
A#
D
F
F#
E
D#
B
G 11:00
Do what you want from here. Like play all the triads. Or...Take time zones from your favorite states and play them. Look for triads and focus in on those. have fun
Something like 12/8 time, thats C and E on our clock, WHOA that's almost a C major triad. So what time is it? 12/8/11 time! Tell that to your drummer and duck behind your half stack!
veguetoxico
New Metal Member
- Dec 1, 2006
- 2
- 0
- 1
Ron
Pffft... I'll stick to my I IV V's, thank you very much. I dun need none o' that progressive dribbery drew.
So I think I got the hold of this tone row approach, here's what I have learned.
Lets start with a 12 tone scale (i'm using A# instead of Bb just for now).
C C# D D# E F F# G G# A A# B
0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11
Select 12 notes in any order, from what I have learned this is called Prime Zero (computers start a zero, why not this...)
1) Place numbers under each note in the 12 tone scale.
2) After you select your tone row, label the notes accordingly with their numbers.
G D# B A# G# A C E C# F F# D
7 3 11 10 8 9 0 4 1 5 6 2
Lets start with making an inversion out of this, called Inversion Zero (I0).
Here's the algorithm I used.
1) Place the first note from Prime Zero (P0) onto your new scale.
If this has already been done then use the last note you placed on
Inversion Zero as a starting point.
2) Look at Prime Zero, measure the distance between the first note in the scale and the next note. If this has already been done then measure the interval from the current note to the next.
3) Ask your self, is this an ascending or descending interval? If it is ascending, then the inversion will be descending; vise versa
Now starting at the current note count the exact same interval but in the opposing direction.
4) Go back to step 1 and repeat until all notes are used up, no notes should repeat.
Lets try it out!
Prime Zero :
G D# B A# G# A C E C# F F# D
7 3 11 10 8 9 0 4 1 5 6 2
Finding the first note...
Inversion Zero (starts with the first note in Prime Zero)
Step 1) G
Step 2) From G to D# is 4 half steps
Step 3) DESCENDING
Step 4) From G ASCENDING 4 half steps, G-G#-A-A#-B we have B.
This is our next note in the tone row, and it become the current not in Inversion Zero. Each dash is one half step
Step 1) Our current note in the inversion is B
Step 2) Look at Prime Zero, the second note is D#. From D# ASCENDING to B is 8 half steps (eight is enough, har har har)
Step 3) This is ASCENDING
Step 4) From B (in our inversion) DESCEND 8 half steps and we have D#
Step 1) Our current note in the inversion is D#
Step 2) Look at P0, the third note is B. From B to its next note A# is one half step.
Step 3) This is DESCENDING
Step 4) From D# in our inversion ASCEND up one half step to E.
Continue this until all twelve notes are completed. Take your time, I *thought* I had this down until I got half way through and my mind went into cruise control and I botched the whole thing.
Now the easy stuff, retrograde. Take Prime Zero and start at the end and work towards the front.
Retrograde of Prime Zero
D F# F C# E C A G# A# B D# G
Retrograde of Inversion Zero
C G# A C# A# D F F# E D# B G
Now throw these guys onto a clock.
C 12:00
G# 1:00
A
C#
A#
D
F
F#
E
D#
B
G 11:00
Do what you want from here. Like play all the triads. Or...Take time zones from your favorite states and play them. Look for triads and focus in on those. have fun
tnx
progmetaldan
Member
the_satanic_rabbit
Return of Ganon
Secretg0at
halit0sis member
^^^ Yes, this has been a great thread!
Sweet Thanks Ron!
This helps me to distinguish the difference between a tone row and creating a circle of 12 tones. I did read the original Circle of 12 Tones page a few times. But I do not know why I kept trying to take the 4 forms of a tone row and stick them on a clock. I knew it was okay to repeat a note since it could be used as a pedal tone. I wasn't quite sure what to think of the Circle of 12 tones. Its clearer now...it does NOT say Circle of 12 Tone Rows. That should have been a clue, i feel dumb.
Especially since it says "So how many different ways can you lay out the 12 tones on a clock?" at the bottom...wow what the hell was I smoking.
I'm pretty sure that learning about tone rows and the circle of 12 tones at the same time had something to do with the confusion. I should have learned one...then apply it...test myself...then learn the other concept. my bad! But I do hope the tone row explanation helped out. I wrote it here since I had just gotten the concept down and applied it correctly more than a few times.
oh. and another thing. I came up with this at work today. Prime Time, playing prime numbered times only on the clock. heh Thats a silly idea, after reading the circle of 12 tones a few times I think I have a handle on it. One this is for certain, knowledge of identifying chord and scale structures is critical. Im workin on it, I keep writing out triads in all the keys, only on sheet music. I have sworn off tab! and I happy to say I can read music again. Repeating this will re-enforce it.
When I made my first few sets of tone rows, I made the intervals between two notes to large (minor 7th interval). I had no intention of doing this, all the notes were random. So in my inversion I had notes going from the treble clef down into the bass clef. I figure that's okay and it sounded interesting when I programmed it into the computer. I plan to build chords from the bass clef notes in an arpeggio fashion. Not explicitly playing the tone row note-by-note. But using the constructed 12 note series as a map with pitstops along the way.
This stuff is awesome. In the grand scheme of music history the 12 tone technique is brand new stuff. So it should be explored and pushed, poked and prodded. Wikipedia is the death of sleep for me.
IM getting way ahead of my self but I found this :
"emancipation of dissonance" yah baby yah!
Emancipation of the dissonance - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Lets keep this discussion going. Lets all try to create a clock and a small piece of music with it. WOuldn't that be nuts, combining everybodys clock into one song. Again I hope I didn't screw anybody up with my post, I feel bad because when you try to answer a question and you explain it wrong. that person has to undo what they just learned. I'll do better next time.
Sweet
Thanks Ron!This helps me to distinguish the difference between a tone row and creating a circle of 12 tones. I did read the original Circle of 12 Tones page a few times. But I do not know why I kept trying to take the 4 forms of a tone row and stick them on a clock. I knew it was okay to repeat a note since it could be used as a pedal tone. I wasn't quite sure what to think of the Circle of 12 tones. Its clearer now...it does NOT say Circle of 12 Tone Rows. That should have been a clue, i feel dumb.
Especially since it says "So how many different ways can you lay out the 12 tones on a clock?" at the bottom...wow what the hell was I smoking.
I'm pretty sure that learning about tone rows and the circle of 12 tones at the same time had something to do with the confusion. I should have learned one...then apply it...test myself...then learn the other concept. my bad! But I do hope the tone row explanation helped out. I wrote it here since I had just gotten the concept down and applied it correctly more than a few times.
oh. and another thing. I came up with this at work today. Prime Time, playing prime numbered times only on the clock. heh Thats a silly idea, after reading the circle of 12 tones a few times I think I have a handle on it. One this is for certain, knowledge of identifying chord and scale structures is critical. Im workin on it, I keep writing out triads in all the keys, only on sheet music. I have sworn off tab! and I happy to say I can read music again. Repeating this will re-enforce it.
When I made my first few sets of tone rows, I made the intervals between two notes to large (minor 7th interval). I had no intention of doing this, all the notes were random. So in my inversion I had notes going from the treble clef down into the bass clef. I figure that's okay and it sounded interesting when I programmed it into the computer. I plan to build chords from the bass clef notes in an arpeggio fashion. Not explicitly playing the tone row note-by-note. But using the constructed 12 note series as a map with pitstops along the way.
This stuff is awesome.
In the grand scheme of music history the 12 tone technique is brand new stuff. So it should be explored and pushed, poked and prodded. Wikipedia is the death of sleep for me.IM getting way ahead of my self but I found this :
"emancipation of dissonance" yah baby yah!
Emancipation of the dissonance - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Lets keep this discussion going. Lets all try to create a clock and a small piece of music with it. WOuldn't that be nuts, combining everybodys clock into one song. Again I hope I didn't screw anybody up with my post, I feel bad because when you try to answer a question and you explain it wrong. that person has to undo what they just learned. I'll do better next time.
^ Ha, yeah, luckily for me, I didn't understand a word you wrote in your explanation, Jason.
But I, too, thought I had it down, but it turns out there was still more that I wasn't sure about. I'll have to read it over a few times. I think I'll post my 2nd 12 tone circle song (in the other thread), even though it's not finished, I've been avoiding it for awhile because I'm stuck.. oh well. I'll figure something out later.
But I, too, thought I had it down, but it turns out there was still more that I wasn't sure about. I'll have to read it over a few times. I think I'll post my 2nd 12 tone circle song (in the other thread), even though it's not finished, I've been avoiding it for awhile because I'm stuck.. oh well. I'll figure something out later.
D'oh. What could I do to help clear it up? I can work out a full example later on tonight or tomorrow. Keep cranking it out, I've learned a lot from making mistakes taking a step back and going 'what was i doing?' and then trying to start over. Tri Tri again! hehe
For example, the 12 tone circle. This morning the first thing that came to my head was 'hey, making a tone row is 12 tones, is that okay to put on the circle?" I came to the conclusion that it is okay since the circle represents 12 tones and that the origin of the 12 notes didn't matter. But I need to re-read the notes from Ron. I might be mistaken.
edit: Here's what I meant to do...Create a tone row and all four of its inversions and retrogrades. Then put them onto a clock. NOW...use the rules of the clock. You CAN repeat notes, move around, play only primes or evens, all the stuff that Ron has layed out you can do. And I think this is how I got goofed up on the concept of creating the clock. I was trying to combine too much stuff at once.
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