How to deal with amateur clients...

[ShipwreckSoundWorks]

If you were here previously you know what this was about. TLDR; Clients wanted to use their pedals, wouldn't listen to me, I was mad, /rant.

UPDATE:
1. OP was right, and after one session they have come to terms and are now in full acceptance of everything I disagreed with in their methods after hearing comparisons


2.

Definitely... Thinking back to when I was just a Douche Dick guitarist in a shitty metal band of 16 year olds, I had no fucking clue about anything and thought I did. Bands with no experience with this type of stuff should not be trusted to make decisions in the studio. It's perfectly fine to make suggestions every now and then but the producer always knows best. If they've been in the studio a few times before then maybe it's a little different.

These are the clients I'm dealing with atm.

3. NO I did not call these clients amateur just because they wanted to use their own equipment, (however I do hold the opinion that the mere fact they don't understand plug ins and everything I can do to replicate their pedals, and trying to tell me why using a pedal is the better idea is a big hint) I called them amateur because they do, in fact, lack some significant amount of skill that puts them below the bar of an acceptable recording, and they lack an understanding of timing signatures. They have never been in a decent studio before, as I can tell by their last recording.

Not meaning to call my own a "decent studio" either. I'm weak and I'm aware of that. But strong enough to consistently fill a schedule for a few months out.

4. I have used pedals in tracking before. Explained this down below, but I'll explain it again:

The time I used pedals I did in fact step out of the way and allow them to do their thing, simply because it did sound good (Tap tempo delay pedal), despite what I could have replicated.
Had I not done this, I would have felt inclined to tone down the style of delay, such as bring it back in the mix and sink it in more, ultimately taking away from their entire sound, that being atmospheric and massive as FUCK.

Point being, I know I came off this way, but I am not a digital DI whore who wants to implement the same sound and style on to every metal, indie, rock, punk group that comes to me. I would like to believe that I do understand the idea of upholding the integrity of a certain sound, and what genres/feels of music call for what sounds, tones, and instrumentation.

5. THANK YOU, to those that backed me up as an AE, I really appreciate when I'm not the only one being frustrated over annoying sessions, and possibly annoying clients.

Love the shit out of this forum <3

 

[UncleBob]

I think for the most part you pretty much answered your own questions.

Otherwise you could just give them what they want, the only problem with that is your name will be all over that clusterfuck.

 

[Bay Studio]

I hear where you´re coming from! This sucks! But, simply just pull it through. Have had a couple of these specific clients myself; but after sitting down with them, explaining how things work, they understood and were quiet/only there when i needed them. Hope things turn out well dude!

 

[if6was9]

You need to politely but firmly describe what you are going to do and why. Don't use terms that they mightn't understand that are specific to recording.

I find that a lot of more inexperienced musicians have trouble separating recording from live playing. So they'll want to use all their gear, they'll try to do songs in 1 long take rather than break things up into sections. And these same musicians will then want to "mix" with you, which often involves just asking for stuff to constantly be louder.

 

[Kellii]

Why not make them track one with pedals and one without and tell them its for blending. Then charge a little extra for the time. Or take a Di box and split the signal before the pedal and do the classic Di and amped tones both at once.

With mastering you're just gonna have to be firm with them. Tell them why you're doing something and what it achieved, They will shup up once they realise!

 

[MotherEel]

Get them to track it the way the want. Track it the way you want. Get them to compare, but on the condition that if they prefer your track (without you telling them which is which), you get to call the shots from then on in.

 

[Fredrik-Ablaze]

Get a di box, split before the pedals, charge them a lot.
If the client wants to track with 55 fuzzpedals for a better feel then let him, jus make sure that the DI is well enough to use later on.

The whole "I'm the engineer and you have to work whatever way makes it easiest for me" bullshit is the very reason why I got into engineering and producing my own albums in the first place

 

[zirkonflex]

I think about the pedals and stuff you could probably check that out beforehand - if the doods are willing to let you steer or they have a specific vision. It's always compromise, you can't come in and say "I wanna use Superior Drummer because it's easier to mix and sounds better than average real drums". Where making music here, it's not only about the production. Deal with it.

/ Obviously take DIs and sneak the digital shit in when they're not looking, if the guys are satisfied everybody wins.

 

[StefTD]

Tell them that you probably know better than them, otherwise they could probably do it and didn't
have to work with you, right?

Try to use simple metaphors, had to describe a problem I had while developing a website with the
metaphor of being a plumber, customer got it within a minute. It's hard to describe your work and
things that are normal for you to people without a clue (especially if they think they have a clue).
Maybe it helps to tell them that they actually don't help you while mastering, it will just take more
time and due to that cost more.
If they're still interested, go for it as long as they're paying.

 

[SoundsLikeFog]

Use their own pedals? Attend a session? For fuck's sake what's wrong with these kids? Do they really think that they get to have any saying on what their record will sound like? Don't they realize that you know better what their music is supposed to sound like?

 

[smy1]

Use their own pedals? Attend a session? For fuck's sake what's wrong with these kids? Do they really think that they get to have any saying on what their record will sound like? Don't they realize that you know better what their music is supposed to sound like?

True!

 

[SoundsLikeFog]

True!

You DO realize that I was merely trying to bitchslap the everlovinchrist out of the OP....? Right.. ....?

E: On a side note, if the AE I was gonna record with told me that he can replicate in a minute all my "cute little delay pedals and fuzz pedals and what not"'s with his fancy plugin-collection, I'd take an extremely sharp 180' and never look back.

 

[RedDog]

You DO realize that I was merely trying to bitchslap the everlovinchrist out of the OP....? Right.. ....?

Yeah, but... We DO know what their music is supposed to sound like. Much better than them.

 

[abaga129]

^
Definitely... Thinking back to when I was just a Douche Dick guitarist in a shitty metal band of 16 year olds, I had no fucking clue about anything and thought I did. Bands with no experience with this type of stuff should not be trusted to make decisions in the studio. It's perfectly fine to make suggestions every now and then but the producer always knows best. If they've been in the studio a few times before then maybe it's a little different.

 

[SoundsLikeFog]

Yeah, but... We DO know what their music is supposed to sound like. Much better than them.

I'd take that as grade-A egotrippin'. They are the artist. It's their record. They pay the bills. There's a HUGE fucking difference in the know-how of making quality records, and saying YOU know how THEIR music is supposed to sound like.

The AE's job is to help me make the record I want to make. Not the other way around.

E: Of course you have to also save the client from themselves when
necessary and not give into stupid bullshit. But wanting to use their own fucking guitar pedals is hardly a stupid idea.

To me it seems that they are just enthusiastic about their record and want to be a part of the procces as much as possible. As they should be. It's their record and we're just craftsman. The OP on the other hand seems to be a first class control freak on an artistic ego trip.

 

[UncleBob]

That's a bit of a flawed analogy, it's like being hired to photograph a wedding, sure the bride might know exactly what she wants but when she starts wanting to use her "stuff" and some new cell phone camera and flash and whatnot that she uses for fun and you know it's going to cause a huge problem and interfere with you doing your job as good as you can then it's an issue.

Otherwise the "artistes" wanting to use there own "sound" that they know is exactly what they want should just require getting them all in one room and record them playing, I mean if they already have the exact sound they want just jamming in a room then all you have to do is stick up a good stereo pair and you're done................which would be the best job ever to have to work on, and beyond impressive on the bands part.

 

[if6was9]

I always let the band set up what they want to use first and then we go from there. It's a collaborative approach where everybody chimes in what they think and I'm up for trying everything.
Means we end up with a tone they like and I have my input. Also means they can't just set up their stuff and say it sounds better than what I might ask them to use because we try both and if one obviously sounds better we all know it.
You've got to be firm and methodical still though, don't settle on the first thing setup if it sounds good, try all the options and use what sounds best.

I must say also I'm a fan of tracking with pedals, plugins have their place but pedals have a certain sound to them and I like to commit. Always take a Di so I can re-amp later but I try not to. What's the point in having TONS of pedals for tone shaping if you don't use them!

 

[right_to_rage]

Another metaphor, "would you add the special sauce before boiling your pasta? I think not".

 

[RedDog]

That's a bit of a flawed analogy, it's like being hired to photograph a wedding, sure the bride might know exactly what she wants but when she starts wanting to use her "stuff" and some new cell phone camera and flash and whatnot that she uses for fun and you know it's going to cause a huge problem and interfere with you doing your job as good as you can then it's an issue

I'm on this side of the fence. I personally don't mind tracking with pedals as long as they'e not temporal/time based applications. Delays, certain reverbs, loops, that sort of thing are very hard to mix with if something needs change, whether you as the producer or artist feel necessary. Things like fuzz and boosts are easy to commit to because you know how they are going to act under a mic and potentially mix wise. Ego trip or not, just because you're paying me doesn't mean I get to be the artist's bitch. This is my environment and I'm going to work the most efficient and comfortable way possible.

 

[SoundsLikeFog]

I'm on this side of the fence. I personally don't mind tracking with pedals as long as they'e not temporal/time based applications. Delays, certain reverbs, loops, that sort of thing are very hard to mix with if something needs change, whether you as the producer or artist feel necessary. Things like fuzz and boosts are easy to commit to because you know how they are going to act under a mic and potentially mix wise. Ego trip or not, just because you're paying me doesn't mean I get to be the artist's bitch. This is my environment and I'm going to work the most efficient and comfortable way possible.

In a session, everybody wants to make the best record possible. It's accomplished much easier if the AE doesn't as a preset treat the client as an enemy whose sole purpose is to fuck up your tried and true plugin presets.

E: It doesn't need to be black and white. No reason for "My way or the highway". You don't need to be a bitch but you need to be a professional. The client needs to respect your ground and vice versa.. But it is THEIR record, any way you look at it. And it will be more intimate to them than it can ever be to you. That's something to remember.

I understand where you all are coming from with this and I agree with the general idea. I just don't aprove to the mindset that for an AE it's just fine to use any prosessing under the sun, tube scream the reamps and use L2 on everything + your morning coffee and then call the client an amateur fuckwit because he wants to use his own rig and not your fancy plugins instead. Yes, little holier than thou. I admit.

E II: And let's recap that nowhere in this thread, did the OP talk about their skills. He referred to them as amateurs and fuckwits solely, because they wanted to use guitar pedals and attend a session. To me, that's way beyond amateur.