How to mic weird drum setup? Advice Needed

[guitarguru777]

I have a drummer coming in this weekend who's cymbal setup on his kit is very unorthodox.

He has a standard 5 piece:

Kick
Snare
10 Rack
12 Rack
16 Floor

Cymbals:
14 Hats
18 Crash
6 Splash
Ice Bell

Im just wondering how to go about setting up the overheads since he only has 1 crash. i dont want the mic to feel lopsided

 

[BLUElightCory]

If you're using a spaced pair, put one mic over the floor tom and one over the first (10") rack tom, equidistant from the snare. This will keep the snare and kick fairly centered and will keep the crash from leaning too far to one side.

 

[AudioPhile777]

If you're using a spaced pair, put one mic over the floor tom and one over the first (10") rack tom, equidistant from the snare. This will keep the snare and kick fairly centered and will keep the crash from leaning too far to one side.

This.

 

[guitarguru777]

If you're using a spaced pair, put one mic over the floor tom and one over the first (10") rack tom, equidistant from the snare. This will keep the snare and kick fairly centered and will keep the crash from leaning too far to one side.

Thanks!!

I'm thinking I may also have to change his 18 Crash to a 16 as its SOOOO FUCKING LOUD!!

 

[plague_rider]

Thanks!!

I'm thinking I may also have to change his 18 Crash to a 16 as its SOOOO FUCKING LOUD!!

good thinking batman, i get really sick of drummers thinking they need the biggest cymbals to get the best sound...

 

[updog]

what kind of music is he playing?

 

[guitarguru777]

Ya tell me about it. Its bad enough i do sound for an 80s hair metal cover band and the drummer doesnt have a cymbal or drum smaller then 14 inches.


14 rack
16 rack
18 floor
22 floor
26 kicks

2 16 crashes
2 16 chinas
3 18 crashes
1 22 ride

THE GUY IS FUCKING INSANE!

 

[guitarguru777]

what kind of music is he playing?

Its like Melo-Death ala Black Dahlia Murder

 

[BLUElightCory]

Keep in mind though that an 18" cymbal will also be lower in pitch than a 16", which can reduce some of the high end "white-noise" in the cymbal sound. If you can get the drummer to lay off the cymbals a little the 18" might sound really good. It REALLY depends on what type of sound you're trying to achieve though.

 

[BLUElightCory]

Ya tell me about it. Its bad enough i do sound for an 80s hair metal cover band and the drummer doesnt have a cymbal or drum smaller then 14 inches.


14 rack
16 rack
18 floor
22 floor
26 kicks

2 16 crashes
2 16 chinas
3 18 crashes
1 22 ride

THE GUY IS FUCKING INSANE!

22 inch floor tom?!?! It's hard enough to get a usable sound out of an 18" tom, ha ha.

 

[updog]

Its like Melo-Death ala Black Dahlia Murder

I thought that guy was an indie/alternative drummer or something...

Hope you'll get good results - I'd say metal needs more crashes than one, especially BDM-type deathcore stuff. But he got the bell right

 

[updog]

22 inch floor tom?!?! It's hard enough to get a usable sound out of an 18" tom, ha ha.

technically, you could use as big as a 26" floortom, but in reality they're all bassdrums from 18" on. (there are 18" bassdrums too, so in my opinion 16" is as big as floortoms should get)

Largest floortom in my Yamaha Recording Custom set is 14", and it definitely could deliver a low enough sound for most needs. A 16" RC floortom would be a beast, but I don't feel like I'd need one right now. Might consider it though, if I came across one sold used. 5 toms ftw

For recording 80's stuff you need big drums, but that kit is just fucking ridiculous, good luck taming two 26-inchers! Do you remember which brand the drums are?

edit. and tell him he doesn't need to bring in any drums he won't use! If the guy plays hair metal he just isn't going to play two bass drums so much he needs them both... I've never seen a hair metal band that has two or more bass drums for any other reason than show.

 

[plague_rider]

can't help noticing he's short at least one cow-bell

 

[Paulie!]

I would suggest that you not change the crash.. It's probably a crash/ride.. so if he's riding at all, the 16" will sound weak/weird.. just tell him to stop lay off the crash parts.....

If nothing else, with only those three cymbals you could really just close mic them from underneath if you wanted....

EDIT: Well, you'd have to mic the crash overhead for the ice bell..... but you could mic the splash underneath so you can get it close and somewhat isolate it from the toms

-Paul

 

[guitarguru777]

Thank GOD he only does this live!!!

The 26's are a bitch to get set up right, they just resonate FOREVER! I did a frequency analysis on them and the low end rumbles at about 20hz ....lol When they play I usually just roll everything from 90hz down out of the PA completely.

As for the cowbell hes got 2.

I forgot to mention "The Cannon" he uses a 14 x 10 snare!!!

Its SOOOOO loud

The kit is a custom Tama (of course what else would a "hair metal" band use) I do have to say the kit sounds phenominal. The toms and kick are 12 ply birch 4 ply maple, the snare is 12 ply maple. The snare is bright as fuck, but then again to get over all that low end on the bottom you need something that just CRACKS like a mo-fo...lol

He actually plays a crap load of double kick. He modifies the drum parts to be a "show off" cause its all about "the show". They are a casino band, what do you expect ...lol

 

[guitarguru777]

I would suggest that you not change the crash.. It's probably a crash/ride.. so if he's riding at all, the 16" will sound weak/weird.. just tell him to stop lay off the crash parts.....

If nothing else, with only those three cymbals you could really just close mic them from underneath if you wanted....

EDIT: Well, you'd have to mic the crash overhead for the ice bell..... but you could mic the splash underneath so you can get it close and somewhat isolate it from the toms

-Paul

Nope he doesn't "ride" on it at all. He cant get to the bell on it cause of the icebell mounted upside down on top of it

My other issue is lack of mics for everything. I only have a set of 4 drum mics, a 57 and an i5. My plan was to use the cheap ass digital reference drum mics I have on the Kick and Toms then use the 57 on the snare. I am going to pick up a cheap set of CAD Oh's this weekend for tracking. My interface also only has 8 CH so I could double mic the snare with the 57 and the i5 if I wanted to, but all the drums are going to be sound replaced with Slate. Since I only have cheap ass piezo triggers (the little red ones from radio shack) I figured I would just use the drum mics and Slate Trigger to sound replace them.

 

[Paulie!]

I have digital reference and mics, you can get a half-way decent tom sound out of both of them and you can get an alright kick sound for rock stuff, but there is not much click/attack in there at all(but you're sample replacing anyways)..

instead of buying the CAD set I'd go for a pair of like the MXL603s or something.. (if budget allows)

Then mic something like..
2 Overheads
i5/57 on the snare
i5/57 on the kick(right up on the batter of the kick for the attack so you can trigger from it)
rest of the mics on the toms..

Only 7 channels and you have close mics to sample from..

-Paul

 

[Paulie!]

Second thought... How much does the CAD set cost?

-P

 

[guitarguru777]

$120 for the set I .....

http://www.guitarcenter.com/CAD-CM217-Small-Diaphragm-Condenser-Mic-271323-i1421917.gc

so your saying put an i5 or 57 on the kick? really? of course thats with the cheap ass DR mic ...lol

 

[Paulie!]

Yeah, a 57 can pick up the attack pretty well.. I mean it's not like you'll use it in the final mix, but the 57 can withstand being next to a kick head and it'll be good to trigger from, very clicky (from my XP atleast..)

-P