how should I mic each cymbal

[flhctroll]

Hey all. I am recording a band starting this week and the drummer has a smaller kit. I was thinking about micing each cymbal. Should I mic each cymbal under the bell, or the edge, or the top or something? Shoul I still do some overheads too? I normally mic the ride from the bottom at the bell and it sounds great, but not sure with less percussive type cymbals if that makes any sense. I haven't seen too much discusion on this topic yet. Any suggestions would be great. Thanks.

 

[~BURNY~]

More mics, smaller kit, more problems... My two cents.

 

[Glenn Fricker]

"stereo spaced pair."

If the drummer bitches he can't hear a certain cymbal, reply "Hit that harder."
If the drummer bitches that one is too loud, reply "Hit that softer."

Miking cymbals individually seems like overkill to me.

-0z-

 

[Loren Littlejohn]

Gonna have to agree with oz, micing each cym doesn't seem like the way.

 

[C_F_H_13]

Hey all. I am recording a band starting this week and the drummer has a smaller kit. I was thinking about micing each cymbal. Should I mic each cymbal under the bell, or the edge, or the top or something? Shoul I still do some overheads too? I normally mic the ride from the bottom at the bell and it sounds great, but not sure with less percussive type cymbals if that makes any sense. I haven't seen too much discusion on this topic yet. Any suggestions would be great. Thanks.

I agree with every other poster thus far..seems like overkill. However, if you really want to do it, I suggest micing it it above the cymbal like 18 inches or something, and out towards the far edge. You'll probably have phase problems galore...but it can be done...check out this photo from the Andy Johns BFD collection....

 

[JeffTD]

Andy actually posted once that he wanted to try this, as he likes to get as much separation as possible (Kick/Snr out of OH's).

One thing I tried the otherday, which worked amazingly well was SM98's underneath the cymbals. One on each. I've used the 98 underneath the ride alot and always got great separation, so godknows why I hadn't tried this before. I'm going to get some of the Audio Technica ATM35's to try out like this.

He followed up with this reply on another thread:

I tried it but it doesn't work on everything that well.

 

[carl@laruso.com]

I find that oh's will do, but - for better separation, stereo width and detail I mike the hats (sdc) - pointing away from the snare.

And the ride (Ldc)- pref under the bell as it gives better separation but if there is one of those rides with other stuff mounted on top like reverse -bells and work on it is technical i'll do the top (sdc) and automate it to get separation

also i mic the china SM-7 (and trigger)

But most importantly work on the overheads for as long as you can to get as good a spred as posible.... try not to get too much hats in them else when it comes to mixing they will become the DEVIL... and not the good METAL kind - more the wanting to re record the drums kind!!!! lol

hope that helps mate

C.

 

[flhctroll]

What made me think I would try this is the last band I mixed last week was all hats in the mix. I ended up using a multiband to kill them a bit. The other cymbals were kinda "dark" in comparison to the hats so it didn't take anything away from the rest of the cymbals. I hate hats. I even had the guy play them as soft as possible, guess it was the cymbals were cheap and quite. Though if I had miced each one it would have cured that.

 

[flhctroll]

Also, I normally time align all O.H.'s to the snare. Would there still be phase issues then?

 

[~BURNY~]

The main problem with crashes is that they move a lot compared to rides and hats (well hats moves quite a bit in fact). If you close mic them, you will pick a lot of air generating a honky tone.
It can be corrected eventually by high-passing them but you will never get that natural balanced tone coming from more traditional overheads.
It can be useful as a complement of OH but not so much as a replacement.
Then again, I'm not Daniel Bergstrand...

 

[joeymusicguy]

"stereo spaced pair."

If the drummer bitches he can't hear a certain cymbal, reply "Hit that harder."
If the drummer bitches that one is too loud, reply "Hit that softer."

Miking cymbals individually seems like overkill to me.

-0z-

or, raise / lower corresponding overhead microphone closest to cymbal that is causing problems

"Now the overheads:

Ask the drummer to hit the snare drum and then open the overhead mikes and balance them so that the snare drum sounds centre. Then ask the drummer to play the whole kit with the toms and the cymbals and listen to the stereo spread listening for the balance of the cymbals. If say the left crash is too low go into the studio and lower the overhead over that crash. Repeat the process starting with the snare again. What you're doing here is making sure that the overhead sound is a true stereo image of the kit. You will hear the toms spread left to right, the kick will be centre. as will the snare. The Hihat will be off to 1/2 right. If you wish to EQ it maybe add some 10Khz tops to it but if your mikes are good you shouldn't need anything else.
"

http://www.saecollege.de/reference_material/pages/Balance.htm

 

[Genius Gone Insane]

FYI dont use a pair in a shitty sounding room

 

[~BURNY~]

Don't record in a shitty sounding room.