How To Refute Flat Earth Lies
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Blurry_Dreams
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Ken Ham is right. There is a select group of us who have tackled this issue online for a few years now. My page is successful and refutes all of it.
My Facebook Page
https://www.facebook.com/pg/AnsweringFlatEarthLies/posts/?ref=page_internal
MeWe Page
https://mewe.com/group/5afadb16ddaed16d62dcd29d
The MeWe format is much nicer but the bulk of the debate is facebook. When you study all these debates carefully you will be convinced that these major flat earth advocates, while aiming their propaganda at Christians, are not themselves Christians. Those of us who are very experienced in debate know that these flerfs are not Christians. They do not respond as Christians do. They do not love God the way Christians do. The Flat Earth Society today is run by an evolutionist. But this is not to say that all flerfs are evolutionists. The goal is to troll flat earth propaganda in Christian circles and $ell it as the Gospel and see how many souls the atheists can terminate. Unfortunately not all Christians are equal intellectually and they fall for conspiracy theory. These Christians tend to be from cults such as Seventh Day Adventists and Jehovah's Witnesses (among other cults like this). But there is this newer movement among evangelicals which we can better understand as the emerging church, who also teach flat earth. But that's not it. Muslims who understand the Qur'an also teach flat earth. But just when you think it couldn't get any worse you then see loads of Satanists pretending to be Christians and pushing flat earth.
Therefore, upon seeing the size and scope of the attack on Christianity, I dropped everything I was doing and began my quest to end the flat earth before I'm 50 (I'm 48 now). By setting a deadline it makes me work harder in my research. I have challenged so many flerfs they shy away from debating me and try to find new ways to propagate flat earth without me catching on so fast as I usually discover their new arguments and have them dismantled on my page before they get a chance to marinate on social media.
I recently had a cancer scare. I saw two Doctors yesterday who seem to think I am cancer free but do have an infection of some sort in my mouth. I have to see a Dentist now. But when I thought I was dying of cancer I made my mind up to continue my research and fight the flat earth with everything I got...every last ounce of strength in me. For I know that if I die now its too soon and flat earth will deceive everybody. But I made plans to go out fighting that deception. So far the Doctors don't think I have cancer. That is good news for me because I have more time to defend Scripture from deceivers.
My point of sharing that was to express how I was willing to spend my last days on earth fighting the flat earth. We Christians do not believe in flat earth because we know the Bible doesn't teach it.
Slammed
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Fuck I hope when my mid-life crisis kicks in I do something normal like buy a Harley and fall off it when I stop at intersections rather than have to spend my days defending a fictitious book. Or at very least if I draw the short straw they give me an easy book to defend, something like Harry Potter.
CiG
Approximately Infinite Universe
So if it did teach it, you'd believe in it in the face of all evidence to the contrary?
Blurry_Dreams
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Bloopy
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My last reply was just a link drop. I don't have much more to add to what I said on page 1. I don't think the people who wrote the Bible nor almost anyone else alive at the time particularly cared about the precise shape of the Earth. So it's completely ridiculous to make the exact words a contentious argument now.
Blurry_Dreams
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I can answer all the flat earth skepticism. You see, as of now, I'm an Anglican minister. But I was a non-denominational Protestant before my research. Though I have always gone to early Christian traditions to solve problems. Typically, Protestants generally never investigate early Christian traditions. But I studied everything ancient. My findings during my research troubled me. It troubled me because professional Protestant scholars, reputable ones at that, were no where near as close to solving all that skepticism as I was. I became an Anglican Catholic as the result of my research on this issue as well as research in exorcism. I even got much better at defending the stuff posted here. I've seen the best skepticism on the issue ans debated the best. They don't debate me anymore because flat earthers get a royal ass kicking every time they do. All they have is their opinion and opinions don't win debates...facts do. Flat earthers have no facts--zero--defending flat earth Bible. I stripped them of all authority and left them to retreat back to their atheist opinion. Before I began challenging them they were trying to preach using Christian sources. You don't see them doing that much anymore. I have my databases on FB and MeWe so the truth is out there.
CiG
Approximately Infinite Universe
Blurry_Dreams
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The people who wrote the Bible recorded the word of God. They were not preaching culture. Those who say the Bible does not teach about the earth's shape will find themselves up against an impossible argument to defend. Here is my article written in response to No Shapers.
There is actually a movement larger than the flat earth movement and that is the No Shape movement. Well, at least that's the name I've given to those who claim the Bible is silent about the shape of the earth. This no-shape movement is almost twice the size of the flat earth movement according to polling data. I believe this movement is the result of the flat earth movement and the No Shapers are those who do not know how to answer FE skepticism so they claim a third position which is easily refuted in just one verse.
Isaiah 40:22 says "...the circle of the earth."
The English word "circle" in Isaiah 40:22 is translated from the Hebrew word H2329 חוּג chûwg,
Strong's Definition
H2329. חוּג Chuwg, khoog; from 2328; a circle:--circle [1x], circuit [1x], compass [1x].".
Gesenius' Hebrew-Chaldee Lexicon, H2329: "חוּג m. a circle, sphere, used of the arch or vault of the sky, Pro.8:27; Job 22:14; of the world, Isa.40:22."
https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?t=kjv&strongs=h2329
I have seen so many atheists--numerous atheists--and their flat earth sidekicks forcefully make the claim that a circle can only mean a 2D flat circle in geometry. But the English word "circle" has a broad definition and that definition includes a sphere/globe/orb whenever circle is applied to the earth. This is because in geometry there is the Great circle of a sphere and the two hemisphere make up the tropic of Cancer (Northern hemisphere) and tropic of Capricorn (Southern hemisphere). The Great Circle is what Isaiah 40:22 is referring to. How do I know this? It tells us that in Hebrew.
The word in Hebrew is not "circle" nor does mean "circle." The Hebrew word "chuwg" means "circle, compass, circuit." It takes three English words to define what a "chuwg" is. So lets take a look at the three words used in the Strong's that describe a chuwg.
1. circle.
In old English the word circle, whenever applied to the earth, means globe. This is because the English word circle derived from the Latin circulus which also meant globe whenever applied to the earth, as circle even today is a synonym for globe. The circle refers to the Great Circle that goes around the center of the earth. All spheres have great circles. This has to do with the circumference of the earth which brings us to the next word..
2. Compass.
This word is used to describe a circle that surrounds, environs, encompasses from all sides. Here is your latitude and longitude, where horizontal and vertical lines intersect. Job 26:10.
3. circuit.
While the word circuit shares much in common with a circle, it does not mean circle. It means the earth moves in a circle. This may account for not just the rotation of the earth, but also its circuit around the sun. Though rotation here is inescapable with the word chuwg since a circuit is not still but it moves.
The Greek Septuagint is also very important since its a 1000 years older than the Masoretic Text. The word used in Isaiah 40:22 is γῦρον (gyron), though its better know in common usage as γύρος (gyros). Both words mean the same thing.
Translated correctly the verse says: "the one who possesses the circumference of the earth". I.e. "The whole earth".
Gyros means "round, circumference, rotation." The Hebrew meaning of "circuit" becomes "rotation" with gyron/gyros. From the word gyro comes the compound word "gyroscope," which is an instrument used to prove the earth is round. In the Latin Vulgate the word becomes gyrum (aka., gyrus). Isaiah 40:22 in Latin translates "gyrus terrarum" which forms the English phrase "globe of the earth."
https://www.wordhippo.com/what-is/d...FOBNnD2RIprnSWabvQ4hFQeP0FQp7lscUa8ifTvpsDue8
H8398 תֵּבֵל têbêl and G3625 οἰκουμένη oikouménē.
These two words are used more times to describe the earth's shape than chuwg is. The difference between the Hebrew words chuwg and têbêl is that chuwg is used solely to describe the moving sphere of the earth while têbêl means the globe along with its inhabitants. In English the word têbêl is translated as "world" and even in English it means the globe and its inhabitants. I will provide links that define both têbêl and the English word "world."
4 Hebrew lexicons define H8398 תֵּבֵל têbêl
These two words are used more times to describe the earth's shape than chuwg is. The difference between the Hebrew words chuwg and têbêl is that chuwg is used solely to describe the moving sphere of the earth while têbêl means the globe along with its inhabitants. In English the word têbêl is translated as "world" and even in English it means the globe and its inhabitants. I will provide links that define both têbêl and the English word "world."
4 Hebrew lexicons define H8398 תֵּבֵל têbêl
https://www.facebook.com/AnsweringFlatEarthLies/posts/710444056077492
"World" Defined in Webster's 1828 Dictionary
http://webstersdictionary1828.com/Dictionary/World
In both Hebrew and English it means "the habitable globe."
But what about Greek? How does têbêl translate in the Septuagint and New Testament? The word is G3625 οἰκουμένη oikouménē and it means the same thing as the Hebrew word. Learning Greek requires knowledge in Greek philosophy from how these words received their meaning. The word oikouménē is married to the word αντιπόδες "antipodes" just as the properties of a living cell are united with the cell and cannot live apart from it. This is because oikouménē and antipodes are all part of a living planet called earth. The earth is spherical and in Greek philosophy the first model globe of the earth is separated into 4 zones. This model came from Crates of Mallus.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crates_of_Mallus#The_Globe_of_Crates
Two of these zones that are most often discussed in the classical era are oikouménē and antipodes. Now antipodes are directly associated with oikouménē (as part of Crates globe). Antipodes are people of opposite earth...who's feet walk beneath our feet. You cannot have antipodes on a flat earth! So the use of oikouménē in both Testaments of the Bible mean the habitable globe. Though, like its Hebrew ancestor têbêl, oikouménē is applied contextually which means not every verse in the Bible that uses the word has a globular meaning. The word must be applied in context with the whole earth and its inhabitants. It must also be in context with God's creation and dominion over the earth -- or Christ' second coming -- to carry the globular meaning. When in context with the entire earth the Greek word G1093 γῆ gē is used which also carries a globular meaning.
The Definition of Earth Means Globe in English, Hebrew & Greek.
https://www.facebook.com/AnsweringFlatEarthLies/posts/726872751101289
Finally, the allegation that the Jews borrowed from the Greeks is one that requires answering here. All verses that mention chuwg or têbêl in the Old Testament antedate the first Greek thought of a spherical earth by Greek philosopher Pythagoras in 500 B.C.
But then the question is asked: maybe the Jews borrowed from Crates globe?
The problem with this allegation is not only is the Old Testament older than Pythagoras, but the Septuagint is a 3rd century translation and Crates globe is a 2nd century model globe of the earth. Yet you will find οἰκουμένη in the Septuagint. This is because οἰκουμένη is the Greek equivalent to the Hebrew têbêl which finds its first appearance in the Bible in 1 Samuel 2:8,
"He reyseth vp the poore out of the duste, and lyfteth vp the begger from the dong hill: to set them among princes, and to enheret them with the seate of glory. For the pyllers of the earth are the Lordes, and he hath set the rounde worlde vpon them" (Strong's H8398: תֵּבֵל têbêl -- 1537 Matthew-Tyndale Bible).
The Book of 1 Samuel was written between 1070 & 970 B.C. This is the traditional date. Liberals might date the Book as late as 1984 A.D. But for the sake of sanity and intellectual honesty we need to stick with traditional dating. The date têbêl first enters into the Bible is 400 to 500 years earlier than Pythagoras. The oldest application of chuwg is found in the Book of Job and most serious scholars accept a date around 2000 B.C. for the composition of Job. But even if one wants to push the date of composition up to 1000 B.C. its still 500 years prior to Pythagoras. Though since there is no mention of the Law in Job, an earlier date is favored. The style of writing and expression also favor an early date for Job.
So Jews and Christians did not borrow anything from the Greeks. God revealed the shape of the earth to His prophets. In 500 B.C., the Greeks began to figure out that the earth is not flat but rather spherical. There isn't much evidence to support the idea that the Greeks borrowed from the Jews either. They seem to have figured it out on their own. But if the allegation is made it would make more sense to believe the Greeks borrowed from the Jewish Scriptures.
Shaping a Conclusion.
A circle, geometrically speaking, is classified as a shape. It is not a non-shape. Therefore the circle is a shape. This shape IS NOT a 2D flat plate shaped circle that flat earthers claim it is. So no-shapers who claim the Bible is silent on the shape of the earth need to understand the Bible better before holding such an erroneous position. The words covered in this article do not cover every word in the Bible that can applied to a globular context. But the words showcased here are the more important words people must understand if they are to properly answer the flat earth movement.
I will freely confess that I did not have this knowledge when I started this research. This knowledge has been lost in translation--AND--the lack of education in America. I never would have solved all this had it not been for my research in the 1537 Matthews Bible. For in the MB you find verses like this:
"The heauens are thine, the earth is thine: thou hast layed the foundation of the rounde world, and al that therin is" (1537 Matthew's Bible -- Psalm 89:11).
If you are an Anglican Catholic and you have the 1928 Book of Common Prayer, its Psalm 89:12 in the Psalter:
"12 The heavens are thine, the earth also is thine; * thou hast laid the foundation of the round world, and all that therein is."
http://justus.anglican.org/resources/bcp/1928/Psalms2.htm
The Psalter from the BCP is taken from the 1539 Great Bible.
Then not only will you find "round world" verses but also "round compass" like in Proverbs 8:31,
"As for the rounde compase of his worlde, I make it ioyfull: for my delyte is to be among the chyldren of men" (1537 Matthew's Bible).
Again, the round compass of this world is the circumference of the earth -- or the great circle as chuwg in Isaiah 40:22 refers to.
You will also notice that chuwg and tebel share context together. Here's a quick compare:
Isaiah 40:22,
"It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in" (KJV).
Jeremiah 51:15,
"Yea euen the Lorde of hoastes that with his power made the earth, with his wisdome prepared the round world, and with his discretion spread out the heauens" (1568 Bishop's Bible).
You'll find the Jeremiah verse in all the Tyndale Bibles. I used the Bishop's Bible to deliver better grammar for readability. Notice how both verses share a common context together. The context is God's creation and dominion over the earth and its inhabitants.
This will conclude this lesson on the Biblical shape of the earth. Nothing I have said here is new. Everything covered in this article is also how the ancients understood these words to mean, The Bible teaches us that the shape of the earth is a globe/sphere/orb.
CiG
Approximately Infinite Universe
You didn't actually answer my question, just rambled about some shit nobody cares about. Congratulations for seeing through the flat earth theory though, big achievement.
Slammed
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Go easy on the poor dude, to him that is how to answer a question....If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshit.
Blurry_Dreams
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also
Abraham, the father of Isaac
would have noticed the earth was curved from looking at stuff pop up beyond the horizon in front of him and stuff disappearing behind the horizon behind him
travels of abraham map - Google Search
Abraham, the father of Isaac
would have noticed the earth was curved from looking at stuff pop up beyond the horizon in front of him and stuff disappearing behind the horizon behind him
travels of abraham map - Google Search
All I can tell you is that my research has always been very honest and objective. If scientists were to claim the earth is flat, but the Bible says its a globe, I go with the Bible. Though fortunately both the Bible and science agree on the shape of the earth. I've seen all the arguments that claim the Bible teaches flat earth and none of those arguments hold water.
I think the flat earth menace is well taken care of. I can tell its on the decline. A lie will be found out and then the tables turn when the liars are exposed.
I did notice that among the Christians fooled into the flat earth scam they all shared a common denominator which is that damn Illuminati Conspiracy Theory. That's the same conspiracy group that pumps out flat earth. Its also the same conspiracy theory directly responsible for all these mass shootings. For that conspiracy theory subliminally teaches mass murder and genocide. All the gunman in these mass shooters were followers of the same conspiracy theory. I'd stake my very life on this claim. I know that's the cause of psychosis in the gunman.
Blurry_Dreams
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okay
i get your need to defend your research methods
(and in this thread your research was unnecessary, only idiots think the Earth is flat)
my complaint was just the length of you posts
post links to your research or something man
this^^ part makes you sound crazy though
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Slammed
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And when you sound crazy to him, the white jacket that does up at the rear and the room with the soft padded walls are your only help.
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