How to use all this good gear to get good quality record?

spycam

spycam

Ruination
Sep 12, 2006
175
0
16
www.ruination.lt
Hello,
I never did reamping before, nor was recording guitars myself at my home studio with all the good equippment, so, i really need your advice.

I will list you what equippment i have now and i would really need you to suggest me the best ways for using it all to get the best sound out of it.

So the list is here:
(guitarrist rig)
* Engl Special Edition EL34 head
* Laboga 2x12 V30 cabinet
* Sennheiser MD421U-2 dynamic microphone (cardioid polar pattern, 5 step bass filter (i'm thinking of also buying the classic Shure SM57 one to record with 2 mikes at the same time))
* Fractal Audio Axe FX Ultra
* ISP Decimator Pro Rack G
* ROCKTRON XPRESSION (unused for a while)

(Computer & stuff):
* A really good PC setup (it will have enough power to handle the record)
* RME HDSPE AIO Audio Interface
* Aphex 207D Microphone and Instrument tube preamp
* Steinber Cubase 5 + all other stuff

Now, since i don't really have a way to record the guitars 100% live through the amp/cab as my family won't have a living :) i decided to do it using reamping method, but i'm not yet really sure how it all works. Can you explain me the basics?
Do i just record the guitars via the Aphex tube preamp to Cubase project, and then i will just wire the cables from RME's analog out to my ENGL amp head and cab to record through the microphones? How is it all being done?

Also, do i use all the FX of the Axe-FX ultra processor like i'm playing it life, or do i apply VST plugin based FX in cubase after the recording?

What about the ISP decimator, do i use it in records?

Please help me with advice of how to use all gear i have to get the best result?

The idea with reamping i think is good for me, since i will be able to record the guitar parts quietly, and then will only need to play with microphone placements and stuff for some time, and it won't take long time to record the reamped guitars at loud volume when all is set and the guitar playing is already recorded via preamp.

Or maybe i should record the guitar signal via the ENGL SE head's preamp? What would you say?

Also, what sample rate (44.1khz?) and bit depth do (16 bit or 24bit) do i have my recording projects in cubase?

Thanks for your upcoming suggestions and advice. I really need it.
 
44.1KHz and 24 bits.

As for Axe FX vs ENGL, go for the one that sounds better, which is likely to be the ENGL anyway.
 
If you're going to reamp then I wouldn't record the DI tracks through a tube pre. You don't want any extra colourattion and saturation before the signal going into the amp. Also you will need a reamp box because line level impedance and guitar level impedance don't match.

24 bit / 44.1 kHz should be fine, at least make sure you record the DI tracks in 24 bits.

When recording 2 microphones, make sure they're in phase with eachoter. From my own experience I can tell that a 57 and a 421 don't phase align easily, since the capsule of the 421 lies deeper in the mic than the capsule of the 57. Start off with the 421 against the grill / cloth and the 57 about 1 inch back. Record both mics separately and zoom in all the way in your DAW to see if they align correctly. If the 57 is later move it a bit closer, if it's earlier, move it a bit further back.

About the decimator: record the DI's without it, you will want them as unaffected as possible. If you're amps are noisy you might want to put it in the chain but don't set it too tight. You won't need it to control feedback since there won't be any!
 
Thanks for the answers, i bet there will be other people with their tips, so i will wait for more.

So, now about reamp box, what is it and which one can you recommend me to buy to have the best possible quality at the lowest possible price? :)

Is that just a DI box?
 
Dont feed the troll, fellas ...

spycam: you need to read some stickies and some basics, really ... your questions are bordering on rude and impertinent, simply due to the fact that you don't bother to check the 1000 pages of basic info before asking.
 
this dude sounds like he lives in an estate in the swiss alps and money isn't much of an issue. haven't any of you met that obscenely rich kid from *insert gated community here* who asks you to come help him with some home recording because he's new to it, and you go to his house and he has everything short of an SSL desk sitting in boxes in one of the houses few dozen spare rooms?

anywho...point being, dude has an axefx, he can probably afford plugins too.

now spycam - yes, there's a "preparing your tracks for re-amping" sticky at the top of the forum. read that beginning to end. all the info for getting the tracks into the DAW is there, and then some. more info than you could ever possibly need. once the tracks are in there, you need a REAMP BOX (which is not a DI box), such as the little labs redeye as already mentioned which functions as both a DI and a reamp box... or see products by "radial", i forget the name of their reamp box but they make some excellent stuff. once you have good DI's down it's pretty simple from there. the purpose of the reamp box was already stated, your interface is gonna be sending a line level signal which is far too hot for the input of a guitar amp. the reamp box impedes it back down to instrument level and presents it to the amp in the same manner that it'd be coming from your guitar.
 
darthjujuu said:
. the purpose of the reamp box was already stated, your interface is gonna be sending a line level signal which is far too hot for the input of a guitar amp. the reamp box impedes it back down to instrument level and presents it to the amp in the same manner that it'd be coming from your guitar.
Click to expand...

Yes, although don't be fooled into thinking that just turning down the volume will negate the need for a reamp box
 
I was reading the thread you mentioned and the other ones during 2 days now, so i'm not that lazy :) Still have some good pack of reading left, which I'll do.
The thing i don't yet get is about routing cables from DI box when recording guitar signal sound to PC.
If i can't connect the balanced XLR out from DI to my Aphex 207D Microphone and Instrument tube preamp (because it would color the tone, as was said in this thread), then where do i connect it?
My audio interface is RME HDSPE AIO:
1 x Stereo Analog I/O (192 kHz)
1 x ADAT I/O (up to 192 kHz via S/MUX4)
1 x SPDIF I/O (192 kHz)
1 x AES/EBU I/O (192 kHz)

and SPDIF is already taken by connecting APHEX preamp

On the other hand, i have already read on other thread this:
Guitar---->instrument cable---->DI----->XLR cable----->mic pre

Then it would go to PC

So i kind of confused now.
 
Have you considered just hiring an experienced engineer? Because the best gear in the world won't get you a great sounding record if you're lacking many fundamentals of recording. Not trying to be rude here... That way you could also learn great a deal.
 
I'm not lacking many fundamentals of recording, i recorded albums in the past, it's just reamping is a new thing for me.
The idea i was after the beginning, was that i need to record the dry guitar signal to my DAW, so this way, i thought, that it's enough to use my Aphex preapm that has special instrument input.
Then the other idea was to use Axe-FX as preamp as it also has an instrument designed input and can send DRY tone or WET tone.

What i want to know is do i really need a DI box or i don't need it, just need a REAMP box.

On Aphex site, they say about my model:
As a "Direct Box":
For bass, acoustic guitar and keyboards the Model 207D's low-noise, wide frequency response and tube warmth allow each instrument's unique character to be captured. The MicLim circuit works on the instrument input also, protecting against overload distortion.

AUDIO
Frequency Response +0, -0.5dB 30Hz - 30 kHz
EIN -129dBu (input shorted)
Crosstalk (10 Hz - 22kHz) -79 dB or better
THD (10 Hz-22kHz at -11dBfs) < 0.18%
Tube Type 12AT7 / ECC81 Dual Triode

INSTRUMENT INPUT
Connector 1/4" Phone Jacks same
Type Unalanced JFET amp same
Input Z 1M ohm nominal same
Maximum Level 10V RMS same
Nominal Preamp Gain infinity to 65dB minus OUTPUT TRIM loss

OUTPUT
Connector XLR-3M and 1/4" TRS Phone Jacks
Type Impedance balanced (may be used unbalanced)
Output Z Balanced XLR: 66 ohms - TRS: 1200 ohms
Output Z Unbalanced XLR: 33 ohms - TRS: 600 ohms
Nominal Level +4 dBu
Maximum Level +21dBu
Output Trim 0 to -12 dB


AXE-FX specs say:
Front Panel Input:
Connector: 1/4&#8221; phone jack, unbalanced.
Impedance: 1 Mohm
Max. Input Level: +12 dBu (conditioned for guitar use)

A/D Conversion
Bit Depth: 24 bits
Sample Rate: 48 kHz
Dynamic Range: > 105 dB
Frequency Response: 20 - 20kHz, +0 / -3 dB
Crosstalk: <-60 dB over full bandwidth

Analog Outputs
Connectors: 1/4&#8221; phone jack unbalanced, XLR balanced (for main output)
Impedance: 100 ohm
Max Output Level: +18 dBu
Dynamic Range: > 105 dB
Frequency Response: 20 - 20kHz, +0 / -3 dB
Crosstalk: <-60 dB over full bandwidth



So, do i really need the DI box?
 
you don't "need" it as such, if you did it would be a matter of quality not a matter of not having the right gear. Buying an expensive DI would likely sound better than an instrument input, but a cheap shit DI would sound worse.
A good DI will likely come in handy many times though, so it's a worthwhile purchase. I believe the countryman Type 85 is well thought of here (IIRC it won the DI shoutout that marcus did a while back)
 
I hear you, i will most likely get a DI and reamp box.
The question i still don't get answer to, is do i connect the DI box to my Aphex Mic preamp XLR IN, or to RME HDSPE AIO Stereo Analog In
 
OK, thanks, that's already something to start with :)

Now i just yet finish the reading about which DI box will be good for both, active and passive pickups
 
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