I'm about to start working on a kind of ambient/post-rock/shoe gaze album. I basically gonna write this one while recording, it's going to be organic, whatever comes to me. You guys have been a ton of help on the metal aspect of things and I was wondering if any of you have any insight into this type of stuff. It's going to be along the lines of Godspeed You Black Emperor! and Explosions In The Sky. I realize that I shouldn't compress it nearly as much to preserve the dynamics of the mix but I also want to get it a little louder than tracking volume. I also don't want it to sound terribly empty.
How would i even start a mix for something like this?
- Thread starter TheIllicitOne
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ExecutiveRob
Silent City Studio
Oddly enough that sounds exactly like a project I started at the beginning of the year - be finishing the tracking next month so won't start mixing it until the last week of May... So I can't give any pointers just yet!
It's a solo artist I've been recording but had various session musicians playing on it, including myself - he has a backing band live but a lot of the time he just plays solo and uses lots of loop and delay pedals to build up massive sounds with just one guitar.
For recording though, we kind of cheated and recorded all the different parts seperately to give a bit more of a natural sound - plus with some loop pedals, when you switch them on you get that "pop" sound of the switch caught in the loop.
A lot of the guitar parts were just experimenting but I think that's the best approach with that sort of stuff. If you've got a basic idea, just record it, loop it and mess around for half an hour over the top of it and see what you come out with - most of it'll be crap but you'll come out with a few strong ideas. Do that a few times and then you'll quickly have a thick, flowing sound.
As for compression, depends on what you record really - but here's a break down of what I'm doing...
-For drums, the session drummer was amazing - all the hits are roughly the same amplitude in the groove sections and barely needs compression. So I'll probably just parallel compress kick, snare and drum bus and leave it at that.
-The electric and synth guitars are virtually compressed anyway through distortion so I'll probably just leave them.
- Acoustic guitar, violins and bass are not dominant parts of this recording - just there to gel it together - so compress enough to keep it under control.
- Vocals - same goes for this too actually! It's not really vocally driven music - they're just there as another layer and more of a subconscious aspect.
It's gonna be a vinyl release too so in general I'm not going to smash the shit out of it!
Anyway, I've waffled on enough... Good luck!
It's a solo artist I've been recording but had various session musicians playing on it, including myself - he has a backing band live but a lot of the time he just plays solo and uses lots of loop and delay pedals to build up massive sounds with just one guitar.
For recording though, we kind of cheated and recorded all the different parts seperately to give a bit more of a natural sound - plus with some loop pedals, when you switch them on you get that "pop" sound of the switch caught in the loop.
A lot of the guitar parts were just experimenting but I think that's the best approach with that sort of stuff. If you've got a basic idea, just record it, loop it and mess around for half an hour over the top of it and see what you come out with - most of it'll be crap but you'll come out with a few strong ideas. Do that a few times and then you'll quickly have a thick, flowing sound.
As for compression, depends on what you record really - but here's a break down of what I'm doing...
-For drums, the session drummer was amazing - all the hits are roughly the same amplitude in the groove sections and barely needs compression. So I'll probably just parallel compress kick, snare and drum bus and leave it at that.
-The electric and synth guitars are virtually compressed anyway through distortion so I'll probably just leave them.
- Acoustic guitar, violins and bass are not dominant parts of this recording - just there to gel it together - so compress enough to keep it under control.
- Vocals - same goes for this too actually! It's not really vocally driven music - they're just there as another layer and more of a subconscious aspect.
It's gonna be a vinyl release too so in general I'm not going to smash the shit out of it!
Anyway, I've waffled on enough... Good luck!
AudioGeekZine
arsehole know-it-all
dude, check out Long Distance Calling. Wicked post-rock!
its mostly instrumental, there are some parts that are pretty heavy, tons of depth, space, clarity, and emotion in those mixes.
I have one of their songs uploaded here http://www.necrosensual.com/stuff/The Very Last Day.mp3
Tips? Record it in an old church. Get an Ebow and a holier grail reverb, run that into a vintage fender twin. <- typical post rock setup.
Having a collection of pedals would likely help. Find the band youthmovies on myspace got though their blog, they documented nearly everyday of recording their last album, hundreds of pictures, I'm sure some of them would give you some ideas.
Have fun, let me hear it when you're done, I like post-rock more than metal these days.
its mostly instrumental, there are some parts that are pretty heavy, tons of depth, space, clarity, and emotion in those mixes.
I have one of their songs uploaded here http://www.necrosensual.com/stuff/The Very Last Day.mp3
Tips? Record it in an old church. Get an Ebow and a holier grail reverb, run that into a vintage fender twin. <- typical post rock setup.
Having a collection of pedals would likely help. Find the band youthmovies on myspace got though their blog, they documented nearly everyday of recording their last album, hundreds of pictures, I'm sure some of them would give you some ideas.
Have fun, let me hear it when you're done, I like post-rock more than metal these days.
smy1
Member
This is what I'd do:
1) Start mixing the drums first and start from the overheads. Use as many EQ dips and boosts as you need (maybe different EQs, too) on the OH channels to get the drums sound as good as possible from the overheads, then bring up each close mic just enough so that you get a bit more punch and definition. You could also sample-replace the closemics 50% for more punch, but don't bring them up like in a modern metal production where they are the main thing and the OH mics are just for cymbals. You want the full kit from the OHs, with 100hz boosts and all. If you have a dedicated room mic, bring that up a lot once you are done with the OH and closemics. Try to not scoop too much out of the low mids, so you get more "body" than "click" in the end.
2) Use 3-4 different parallel compressors. Set up a number of auxes and put different compressors on the returns. Then label them something like "Drums", "Guitars", "Everything Else" and "Drums & Bass" and pull the return faders down. Then dont compress the individual channels but send everything to those compressors thru the aux sends. Bring up the return faders to taste until you like the sound.
3) Use 3-4 different verb setups, maybe rooms that are small, medium, cathedral and a dark plate. Cut off every reverb return above 8k and below 200hz. Then envision where you want the "players" to be. The closer they should be to the listener give them a bit of the small room, the further they should be away, give them some cathedral, etc. ... Don't be excessive, just add in space. The cuts on the reverbs will make them "disappear" more which makes it easier.
4) Automate a lot. When a new part starts, make it a tiny bit too loud for a few seconds and then fade it back into the mix once it caught the listeners attention. Also ride the group faders for drums or the room/oh mics and add more during "big" parts. Bring in dynamics through automation.
5) Split the bass into 3 mono channels: bottom center, top left, top right. Bottom center is just lows from 20-300hz and it is panned dead center, top left/right is everything above that panned hard L/R with different EQ and modulation (very slight chorus) on each side. This should give you a very centered yet wide bass sound with TONS of options for automation.
Hope that helps as a starting point!
1) Start mixing the drums first and start from the overheads. Use as many EQ dips and boosts as you need (maybe different EQs, too) on the OH channels to get the drums sound as good as possible from the overheads, then bring up each close mic just enough so that you get a bit more punch and definition. You could also sample-replace the closemics 50% for more punch, but don't bring them up like in a modern metal production where they are the main thing and the OH mics are just for cymbals. You want the full kit from the OHs, with 100hz boosts and all. If you have a dedicated room mic, bring that up a lot once you are done with the OH and closemics. Try to not scoop too much out of the low mids, so you get more "body" than "click" in the end.
2) Use 3-4 different parallel compressors. Set up a number of auxes and put different compressors on the returns. Then label them something like "Drums", "Guitars", "Everything Else" and "Drums & Bass" and pull the return faders down. Then dont compress the individual channels but send everything to those compressors thru the aux sends. Bring up the return faders to taste until you like the sound.
3) Use 3-4 different verb setups, maybe rooms that are small, medium, cathedral and a dark plate. Cut off every reverb return above 8k and below 200hz. Then envision where you want the "players" to be. The closer they should be to the listener give them a bit of the small room, the further they should be away, give them some cathedral, etc. ... Don't be excessive, just add in space. The cuts on the reverbs will make them "disappear" more which makes it easier.
4) Automate a lot. When a new part starts, make it a tiny bit too loud for a few seconds and then fade it back into the mix once it caught the listeners attention. Also ride the group faders for drums or the room/oh mics and add more during "big" parts. Bring in dynamics through automation.
5) Split the bass into 3 mono channels: bottom center, top left, top right. Bottom center is just lows from 20-300hz and it is panned dead center, top left/right is everything above that panned hard L/R with different EQ and modulation (very slight chorus) on each side. This should give you a very centered yet wide bass sound with TONS of options for automation.
Hope that helps as a starting point!
Let it burn...
Orgasm Donor
My band plays some ambient / post-rock stuff and i recorded our first ep a couple of months ago. Here are some tips
Drums:
Room mics and overheads! You'll want a lot of air in your music and a verby drum is the way to go for post-rock. Just listen to EITS, you'll want that drumsound. close mic everything though, but make sure the snaresound is coming from the OH's.
Don't filter the OH's too much. keep the HPF at 200hz
Use little compression but make them sound punchy
Bass:
I like slightly distorted bass tones but it really depends on the style of post-rock that you're recording.
Guitars:
Cleans: I like convolution verbs on the clean guitars and no verb coming from the amp at all
Distorted: don't mic it like you'll mic a metal amp. Use a ribbon if you can, or place a SM57 slightly off center at a pretty far distance from the amp
Effects: Make sure you have a lot of pedals. Delay is the main tool for every post rock guitar sound
Other:
Synths!! You'll want them, even if you don't tend to use them live. They are amazing for filling the empty space in your mix and lift the whole song to another level. Try Absynth 4, it rocks for this genre
Bad intonation on guitar: Seriously, listen to EITS. Those guitars sound detuned as hell because the intonation is fucked up big time but sometimes that's just what you want
Automation: Use it instead of compressing the hell out of individual tracks.
2-Buss:
I like to do it this way: a touch of convolution verb-> Tube saturation -> EQ -> a little bit of comp or even no comp -> Tape saturation -> limiter (don't squash it to dead)
Drums:
Room mics and overheads! You'll want a lot of air in your music and a verby drum is the way to go for post-rock. Just listen to EITS, you'll want that drumsound
. close mic everything though, but make sure the snaresound is coming from the OH's.Don't filter the OH's too much. keep the HPF at 200hz
Use little compression but make them sound punchy
Bass:
I like slightly distorted bass tones but it really depends on the style of post-rock that you're recording.
Guitars:
Cleans: I like convolution verbs on the clean guitars and no verb coming from the amp at all
Distorted: don't mic it like you'll mic a metal amp. Use a ribbon if you can, or place a SM57 slightly off center at a pretty far distance from the amp
Effects: Make sure you have a lot of pedals. Delay is the main tool for every post rock guitar sound
Other:
Synths!! You'll want them, even if you don't tend to use them live. They are amazing for filling the empty space in your mix and lift the whole song to another level. Try Absynth 4, it rocks for this genre
Bad intonation on guitar: Seriously, listen to EITS. Those guitars sound detuned as hell because the intonation is fucked up big time but sometimes that's just what you want
Automation: Use it instead of compressing the hell out of individual tracks.
2-Buss:
I like to do it this way: a touch of convolution verb-> Tube saturation -> EQ -> a little bit of comp or even no comp -> Tape saturation -> limiter (don't squash it to dead)
