Howard wins award on Human Rights ?

[Shannow]

spawn, I'll admit that Maddass Whosux was a tyrant, who deserved to be gotten rid of. Just not the way that we went about it.

Before the invasion, Iraqis had one of the highest rates of civilian firearm ownership. No restrictions on Semi-autos etc.

If the whole second amendment argument worked, then they would have overthrown him in an instant, but they didn't.

But I see the battered wife over the street. She gets beaten, and thrown at walls. Neighbours call the cops, and she defends him, abusing the cops and trying to physically eject them from her home.

 

[Sydo]

There is some evidence to suggest that the "insurgents" are members of the former Iraq army, who are trying to free their country of an invader.

That's sort of what I was trying to get at.
Those in the Iraqi armed forces were reasonably well treated by ##. The were armed, clothed, fed and got to shoot shit. They have since, in most basic terms, lost their jobs. To them the 'good' life they knew is gone.
Sure, they may partially think they are trying to free their country from an invader - but I'm betting they also poor, hungry and pissed off.

 

[spawn]

Right, so its the (comparitively) rich few in the army who Saddam looked after trying to keep the status quo... They have just learnt what its been like for the people Saddam has been treating like shit for 30 years.

I agree that they should never have been invaded though. George Bush is so stupid its amazing he can tie his own shoelaces, and its disgraceful that he says all the soldiers he sent over there are dying for "freedom" (regardless of whether the people over there are better off, they shouldnt be there at all), you would like to think Dubya has trouble sleeping at night, but you know he doesnt. WANKER.

 

[Winmar]

It's nice to have a thread I agree with so much of. Saddam was a fuck, and Iraq's ultimately better off without him, but it was the way they went about it and the reasons for it that I completely disagreed with. None of the coalition of the killing could give a flying fuck about the people, and they seemed to have no foresight into the likely repercussions of going in the way they did. Iraq is a complete shambles, and I can't see it changing in the near future.

One of Islam's problems is that it doesn't have a head like the Catholic and Anglican churches do, for example. The churches can put out directives, but Islam is so fragmented that you get all these fuckwits thinking they can commit all kinds of acts in God's name, and they get away with it.

Like Sydo said, a lot of Muslim women do like wearing the hijab. A lot of my old students wore it out of choice, while others chose not to. I'm not a fan at all of those ones that cover the woman's face completely though, as often worn in Iran and formerly (?) in Afghanistan. I saw a program on women in Afghanistan recently, and found out that prior to the Taliban coming in women used to go out wearing skirts and sleeveless tops. I had no idea!

 

[Southy]

The Taliban were/are the most twisted organised bunch of looney's on Earth

 

[Kem]

I dunno if I'm misinformed or not, but I was under the impression that Saddam's Iraq was actually pretty secular.

 

[Goreripper]

No Kem, you are correct. Saddam had no desire to create an Islamic state. In fact, apart from being a military dictatorship, Iraq was quite a progressive Arabic nation. Women were encouraged in the workforce and Islamic fundamentalism was actually suppressed. The Christian Iraqis are having a harder time now that they've been "liberated" than they ever did while Saddam was there.

 

[Winmar]

That's what I was thinking as well. Saddam's secularism is part of the reason that Osama (apparently) hates him. Saddam funding Al Qaeda doesn't exactly make sense, does it Bush and Howard?