Impulse shootout with JMP-1, including Guitarhacks/Recabinet/Poidaobi impulses
- Thread starter noarin
- Start date
GuitarHack
Krank it UP!
"Guitarhacks NEW IR Set1\3\edge-half impulse "
You didn't use any of those 2 new sets did you.
uke: They smell a bit (a lot). 
I will be re-deconvolving all of those 2 sets over the weekend, with correct tail length's so they will (hopefully) be TONS better than they currently are.
I will make a new thread when they are done. Keep an eye out for them.
You didn't use any of those 2 new sets did you.
uke: They smell a bit (a lot). I will be re-deconvolving all of those 2 sets over the weekend, with correct tail length's so they will (hopefully) be TONS better than they currently are.
I will make a new thread when they are done. Keep an eye out for them.
GuitarHack
Krank it UP!
Just a personal opinion and I guess it's a matter of taste, but to my ears GuitarHack's impulses still remain undefeated
Cheers.
- Apr 16, 2006
- 569
- 0
- 16
"Guitarhacks NEW IR Set13edge-half impulse "
You didn't use any of those 2 new sets did you.
I will be re-deconvolving all of those 2 sets over the weekend, with correct tail length's so they will (hopefully) be TONS better than they currently are.
I will make a new thread when they are done. Keep an eye out for them.
I did
sorry about that I'll be on the lookout for your new deconvolved ones
poidaobi
Held in Hollows
For being nice...I'll make some more on the weekend. Which means I'll do it the next weekend after that after that.
Nah I will try to do some this weekend.
I guess I'll do , Straight at Cone, 45o Off Cone, Straight on to side of Dustcap (my fave). With an SM-57....if I'm not Lazy I'll do the same with a B1 Condensor (I think it sounds sweet for Guitars!)
Nah I will try to do some this weekend.
I guess I'll do , Straight at Cone, 45o Off Cone, Straight on to side of Dustcap (my fave). With an SM-57....if I'm not Lazy I'll do the same with a B1 Condensor (I think it sounds sweet for Guitars!)
More Than Ever
Member
- May 23, 2008
- 176
- 0
- 16
- 51
The RECABINET IR's are easily the worst out of the bunch. Looks like more work needs to be done to get it on par with Guitarhacks work which sounds fantastic by the way.
Nice test!
Nice test!
Kazrog
Kazrog, Inc.
Upon listening to these again, I can honestly say that I don't think these clips do any of these impulses justice, and I don't know if running the same preamp settings through a bunch of IR's proves a whole lot, other than what sounds best for a particular setting on the preamp. I for one wouldn't be satisfied with ANY of these tones on an actual project, though I can definitely agree that the Recabinet impulses sound darker than the others in this comparison.
The demo version of Recabinet has 8 impulses. The full version of Recabinet, by contrast, has 450 impulses, with a lot of tonal variation available. Some, especially the "cap" impulses, are a good deal brighter than the demo impulses, if a lot of brightness is something you want to hear at the impulse stage of your tone specifically.
Just like switching power amps, cabinets and mics in real life, I think it's important to keep in mind that impulses can be wildly different from each other, and that it's a good idea to experiment with different preamp and post EQ settings to get the most mileage out of an IR, just as you would do with physical gear in the studio.
More Recabinet clips are on the way very soon, in the mean time I encourage everyone to try the demo out and judge for yourself. It's a bold proposition being in a market where the only "competition" is free. Just as some people prefer Reaper over commercial DAWs, Linux over commercial operating systems, etc., I'm also cool with the fact that some people will likely prefer the free impulses out there over Recabinet. I wouldn't have entered this space without knowing that was a business risk, and I also wouldn't have entered this space commercially if I felt my product didn't have significant advantages over the free stuff out there.
The demo version of Recabinet has 8 impulses. The full version of Recabinet, by contrast, has 450 impulses, with a lot of tonal variation available. Some, especially the "cap" impulses, are a good deal brighter than the demo impulses, if a lot of brightness is something you want to hear at the impulse stage of your tone specifically.
Just like switching power amps, cabinets and mics in real life, I think it's important to keep in mind that impulses can be wildly different from each other, and that it's a good idea to experiment with different preamp and post EQ settings to get the most mileage out of an IR, just as you would do with physical gear in the studio.
More Recabinet clips are on the way very soon, in the mean time I encourage everyone to try the demo out and judge for yourself. It's a bold proposition being in a market where the only "competition" is free. Just as some people prefer Reaper over commercial DAWs, Linux over commercial operating systems, etc., I'm also cool with the fact that some people will likely prefer the free impulses out there over Recabinet. I wouldn't have entered this space without knowing that was a business risk, and I also wouldn't have entered this space commercially if I felt my product didn't have significant advantages over the free stuff out there.
-Gavin-
Gavornator
Bro, i think it's fantastic that you're dealing with this and setting up your own business and frankly it's an inspiration to everyone of us!
I know you have put a lot of work and dedication into trying to establish a brand and a product that is recognisable and a "Market leader" (so far!) in your chosen commercial field.
But man, I'm gonna say this as a bro.
It's simply way too expensive for what it is...
A RADICAL improvement over Guitar hack's (or indeed any of the board made free impulses) would justify money but this hasn't really taken the board by storm, these demos to be honest.
In order for people to consider jumping on this, i would much lower the price to maybe 40$ which makes the product far more accessable.
I realise that you have to make a living too, but at the same time, $80 for something that others (in my opinion) do better, for free is a bit steep...
The improvement that the hype was based on is simply not there man.
And for the record, you shouldn't rubbish comparisons with this as this is no different from any other "amp/cab/mic" shootout... in that there has to be a constant and a variable.
To me, Recabinet comes off unfavourably to the free options and/or doesn't provide a major boost over the ones that were made way before.
Lower the price and i (and many others) may consider purchasing but at the moment (if i wasn't so broke), i'd rather fire £20 to Guitar Hack as a donation for all his hardwork and the sheer volume of work i have used his "cab" (and bro-like qualities) for.... I'm not gonna cause i'm poor, but principle is there
!Anyway man, i have the utmost respect for you for trying this, and it could eventually lead to great things, but sadly at the moment, it's not really close so no cigar!
hoehlentroll
Member
I would disagree, since using an impulse in a clip is only speaking for a certain situation. There are many othere musical situations to prove wether an impulse is better or worse. Saying this impulse is better, only means it's better for you an your special type of music. It's a bit like two person are fighting over a mesa impulse and a marshall impulse, while person a does 80 metal and person b does metalcore.
@Gavin
as I already said, this package is imho usable to get variety and consistency. It's like: "I feel to write an 80 Metal song today - what do we have here, a little bit of this 2x12 marshall and a little bit of an orange 4x12".
Selling the product for 80 or 40$ is more a distributional problem, rather than value for money.
ProjectHamsterdam
God of Emptiness
I am all sold on the idea of a great commercially available high-quality IR collection and for what it's worth I recently got a PayPal account specifically for the purpose of purchasing Recabinet.
My personal opinion (and feel free to bash me for it, since I am not the biggest tonehead out there) is that the Recabinet demo IRs are just too smooth for their own good.
I feel the demo IRs would be great for blending, because they have great low mids and lows, but they are deffinitely lacking in the high end department. Most of this I suppose is due to the fact that they are all based on 'edge' mic positions.
Some variety would have been useful, perhaps 2 'edge' ones and 2 'dustcap' ones with SM57 would have given a better idea about the end product. (IMO)
I'd love to back up my words with some clips, but after fiddling for a couple of hours with not one but two different preamps I couldn't get anything post-worthy. The dual recto was just muddy beyond words and the rock master could get acceptable stuff, but nothing to be floored by. It is hard to break through the muddyness even with some rather extreme settings. Well, I'll try again today and perhaps post something in the other thread for you to criticize.
I still want to believe that the problem is with the demo, not with the IR pack itself. I just feel this is not the best mic position to base our impressions on, it would be good if the demo IRs were a bit more balanced. (just my opinion)
My personal opinion (and feel free to bash me for it, since I am not the biggest tonehead out there) is that the Recabinet demo IRs are just too smooth for their own good.
I feel the demo IRs would be great for blending, because they have great low mids and lows, but they are deffinitely lacking in the high end department. Most of this I suppose is due to the fact that they are all based on 'edge' mic positions.
Some variety would have been useful, perhaps 2 'edge' ones and 2 'dustcap' ones with SM57 would have given a better idea about the end product. (IMO)
I'd love to back up my words with some clips, but after fiddling for a couple of hours with not one but two different preamps I couldn't get anything post-worthy. The dual recto was just muddy beyond words and the rock master could get acceptable stuff, but nothing to be floored by. It is hard to break through the muddyness even with some rather extreme settings. Well, I'll try again today and perhaps post something in the other thread for you to criticize.
I still want to believe that the problem is with the demo, not with the IR pack itself. I just feel this is not the best mic position to base our impressions on, it would be good if the demo IRs were a bit more balanced. (just my opinion)
devouredremains
Matt Van Daele
I'm unable to get a worthy tone to show through the mud either. I can get close but it seems to end up sounding harsh with the amount of eq'ing I need to do on the preamp itself and post eq.
And I hope this doesn't come across sounding harsh but what are the definitive advantages ReCabinet has over any other standard IR that you keep mentioning? I'm really not hearing it and it would be nice to have some details about this. I'm not trying to get you to divulge company secrets or anything but you've mentioned earlier in the recabinet thread developing a way to capture non linearity's in your IR's. Care to elaborate there as well?
Thanks in advance.
And I hope this doesn't come across sounding harsh but what are the definitive advantages ReCabinet has over any other standard IR that you keep mentioning? I'm really not hearing it and it would be nice to have some details about this. I'm not trying to get you to divulge company secrets or anything but you've mentioned earlier in the recabinet thread developing a way to capture non linearity's in your IR's. Care to elaborate there as well?
Thanks in advance.
Kazrog
Kazrog, Inc.
Wow, some really awesome feedback, guys. Thank you for taking the time to test this out and give me such honest, open, and detailed feedback!
So I've made a couple of decisions based on this feedback, as well as some eerily identical feedback I've gotten from other people:
So I've made a couple of decisions based on this feedback, as well as some eerily identical feedback I've gotten from other people:
- The demo will be expanded from 8 to 32 impulses, starting now. Same link location! In fact, here's the link.
- The price will be lowered from $79.99 to $39.99, starting when Recabinet 1.0 goes on sale November 4, through January 1, 2009.
devouredremains
Matt Van Daele
Thats a nice thing of you to do Kazrog. I can tell you have faith in this product and judging by the tone you had on the opening page of the recabinet site it must be possible. I'll work with the new demo when time permits later today and if good tones are more easily obtainable from it then I will certainly purchase recabinet on release day. I like the idea of having a selection over the power section the impulses were recorded with. Thats a big seller for me.
What payment methods will you be using?
What payment methods will you be using?
Ermz
¯\(°_o)/¯
From what I can hear on those clips, I would have to say that Marcus' sound closest to what I'd expect the cab to sound like after being mic'ed. Great job there mate. I'm only listening through cans, so it's not a proper A/B over here.
For the rest:
Diezel: Not too bad. Stands on its own, but nothing spectacular to set it apart from the competition. Sounds a bit phasey.
Recabinet: The frequency balance doesn't work too well in this scenario, but I think the core of the tone could be usable. Need to hear more.
Poidaobi: Sounds stuck midway through a flange. Sounds like there was something odd about the sampling or deconvolving process. There's some artificial grain/fizz there.
GH: Still good! From what I can hear on the cans it beats out the Recabinet ones.
Marcus' sound the most natural to me, but they also have quite a bit of fizz that isn't pleasant and would need EQing out of the tone. That aside, they seem to 'breathe' the most... on cans at least.
The Recabinet ones don't seem to bring the sort of revolution in impulses that many of us had been hoping for. I have, and will continue to, advocate trying Nebula 3 as the technology to take us to the next level. We really need an overhaul in the technology used to do this. I mean the convolution/impulses method was geared towards sampling acoustic spaces, and doesn't take into account a lot of the elements that we need as part of 'tone' when modeling hardware.
Been a great shootout though. Thank you very much for taking the time to do that for us.
For the rest:
Diezel: Not too bad. Stands on its own, but nothing spectacular to set it apart from the competition. Sounds a bit phasey.
Recabinet: The frequency balance doesn't work too well in this scenario, but I think the core of the tone could be usable. Need to hear more.
Poidaobi: Sounds stuck midway through a flange. Sounds like there was something odd about the sampling or deconvolving process. There's some artificial grain/fizz there.
GH: Still good! From what I can hear on the cans it beats out the Recabinet ones.
Marcus' sound the most natural to me, but they also have quite a bit of fizz that isn't pleasant and would need EQing out of the tone. That aside, they seem to 'breathe' the most... on cans at least.
The Recabinet ones don't seem to bring the sort of revolution in impulses that many of us had been hoping for. I have, and will continue to, advocate trying Nebula 3 as the technology to take us to the next level. We really need an overhaul in the technology used to do this. I mean the convolution/impulses method was geared towards sampling acoustic spaces, and doesn't take into account a lot of the elements that we need as part of 'tone' when modeling hardware.
Been a great shootout though. Thank you very much for taking the time to do that for us.
devouredremains
Matt Van Daele
Speaking with Giancarlo from Nebula about this he said it's certainly possible to sample power sections/cabs with Nat. I will pick up nebula sometime in the near future and see what I can do.
I asked him about sampling guitar preamps and he said that it can be done but with reduced gain which is pretty useless in terms of creating a true emulation IMO. But he also mentioned the technology to do so will be implemented in the future.
The nice thing about Recabinet is the multi platform compatibility that everyone asked for when they were slated as altiverb only based impulses and I must say with the expanded demo I've gotten some excellent tones in short amount of time. The low mids are right where you want them and the high end is not buzzy or harsh.
I asked him about sampling guitar preamps and he said that it can be done but with reduced gain which is pretty useless in terms of creating a true emulation IMO. But he also mentioned the technology to do so will be implemented in the future.
The nice thing about Recabinet is the multi platform compatibility that everyone asked for when they were slated as altiverb only based impulses and I must say with the expanded demo I've gotten some excellent tones in short amount of time. The low mids are right where you want them and the high end is not buzzy or harsh.
More Than Ever
Member
- May 23, 2008
- 176
- 0
- 16
- 51
My bottom line is that for a product I'm expected to pay money for, should have solid, concrete evidence of it having some advantage over other resources, (which are currently all free and very plentiful,). I would have no problem plunking down cash for impulses that may model the exact mic/cab combination I desire for a project, but I would expect the impulses to be of the highest quality possible since I'm paying for them. Currently, ReCabinet hasn't proven anything to me to make me pay for it.
As for the example, for the example to be really fair, I would expect all the IR's to be used within the test to be the same cab/mic combinations with similar mic placements. Now if the ReCabinet IR's were a totally different combination than the other IR's were, I could understand why they might have sounded so different than the other IR's.
I love the idea of ReCabinet, but my expectations are very high for the product, hence why I would pay for the product. I want some real proof as to the ReCabinet IR's sounding better than the majority of other IR's out there. If there is no real proof, don't expect people to pay money for it, especially when Guitar Hacks IR's are so good and he releases them for free. Just the idea of registering ReCabinet and the method of anti-piracy seems like a possible head ache in comparison, Don't get me wrong, I do understand the need for anti-piracy, but it's always a headache for the paying customers.
- Apr 16, 2006
- 569
- 0
- 16
- Apr 16, 2006
- 569
- 0
- 16
For being nice...I'll make some more on the weekend. Which means I'll do it the next weekend after that after that.
Nah I will try to do some this weekend.
I guess I'll do , Straight at Cone, 45o Off Cone, Straight on to side of Dustcap (my fave). With an SM-57....if I'm not Lazy I'll do the same with a B1 Condensor (I think it sounds sweet for Guitars!)
The B1 can sound very sweet on guitars as well.. any chance of some impulses with a 421, beyer m160 and/or AT5050? I'm dying to be able to use those..
